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Discussion starter · #21 ·
What made you decide to up spring rates versus stiffening up roll-bars?
 
What made you decide to up spring rates versus stiffening up roll-bars?
I already had a Shine Racing bar out back and was picking up the inside rear tire. At the time, I was running no front bar.

I've since added an Autotech front swaybar. The car stays fairly flat and planted now. I am going to play more with tire pressures and camber adjustments at the next test and tune. I think it's set up pretty decent right now as I have a good balance of understeer and oversteer depending on the situation.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
Ahh, OK.

That makes sense. I remember back before I bought my suspension that many people recommended a heavy bar in the back, and removing the front swaybar. I see you had issues rolling too much up front and installed a heavier bar... Why is removing the front sway bar so common? I honestly don't feel a need for it, in fact, feels like I want to soften up the rear, maybe stiffen the front.

Also Wayne, since you have corner balanced your car with the rear stripped out, how much did your car weigh, what other weight reduction have you done, and what was the balance like?

As nose heavy as I'm guessing it is, you'd figure upgrading the front sway bar would be more beneficial..
 
Ahh, OK.

That makes sense. I remember back before I bought my suspension that many people recommended a heavy bar in the back, and removing the front swaybar. I see you had issues rolling too much up front and installed a heavier bar... Why is removing the front sway bar so common? I honestly don't feel a need for it, in fact, feels like I want to soften up the rear, maybe stiffen the front.

Also Wayne, since you have corner balanced your car with the rear stripped out, how much did your car weigh, what other weight reduction have you done, and what was the balance like?

As nose heavy as I'm guessing it is, you'd figure upgrading the front sway bar would be more beneficial..

After I installed my KW's, I had the car corner balanced. This was several years ago (2009). I had already moved the battery to the rear, removed the A/C system and installed a VIS carbon fiber hood to try to get some weight off the front end. The cross weights were dialed in nicely at LF/RR = 1444 lbs and RF/LR = 1430 lbs. That's 50.2% and 49.8% respectively. That's with me in the driver's seat. Unfortunately, that's still a horrific 62.9%/37.1% front-to-rear weight balance. There's just way too much cast iron block hanging out in front of the axles. Oh well. Total weight with me in the car is 2874 pounds. I haven't done a whole lot to the car to lighten it other than what I mentioned already. I have a Spoonfed Tuning CF rear wing, Wilwood front calipers, SSR rims, removed the windshield washer fluid reservoir, deleted the rear wiper, deleted the radio, swapped the driver's seat with a Recaro SRD, changed to Euro belts, and removed the rear seats.

I think the "suspension math" says that adding a front swaybar will induce more understeer and added a rear swaybar induces more oversteer. After years of messing around with the car and trying different configurations, the car is the most balanced in it's current state (with an incredibly stiff rear swaybar PLUS a front swaybar). A road race setup may benefit from less front bar, but I don't have any problem getting the rear to step out with a little throttle lift.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
Thanks for providing that information!

What's the lightest anybody has gotten a still-street-legal-SLC? I'd like to dig into and pull weight, but also nervous about further upsetting the balance be removing stuff from the back of the car.
 
Car & Driver's 1992 SLC test car weighed in around 2840 pounds and had a 60/40 weight distribution, that's from the factory of course. That's about the same as a new Subaru/Toyota FRS/BRZ.

Once you have relocated the battery, which ought to have the biggest bang for the buck as it's heavy and really far forward, you're left with the air conditioner (weighs about 17 pounds), then you're down to small stuff that saves a couple pounds. Of course it adds up. CF hood, fiberglass fenders, lightweight brakes & wheels, cut out some structure.

The only sensible way to remove weight from out front would be to get rid of the VR6 and install a 1.8T. The 4 cylinder is above the front wheels, not in front of them. It can make more power, weighs a lot less, and so on. Although C&D's G60 test car weighed 2700 and had 63/37 weight distribution... Also without the VR it's not really the same car anymore. I can't see any other way to fix the nose heavy part, and the front drive part is pretty much a given. And I have gone the other way and put an even heavier engine out there.

Perhaps the 1.8T engine + a cast iron rear bumper would get us nearer 50/50? :D
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Car & Driver's 1992 SLC test car weighed in around 2840 pounds and had a 60/40 weight distribution, that's from the factory of course. That's about the same as a new Subaru/Toyota FRS/BRZ.

Once you have relocated the battery, which ought to have the biggest bang for the buck as it's heavy and really far forward, you're left with the air conditioner (weighs about 17 pounds), then you're down to small stuff that saves a couple pounds. Of course it adds up. CF hood, fiberglass fenders, lightweight brakes & wheels, cut out some structure.

The only sensible way to remove weight from out front would be to get rid of the VR6 and install a 1.8T. The 4 cylinder is above the front wheels, not in front of them. It can make more power, weighs a lot less, and so on. Although C&D's G60 test car weighed 2700 and had 63/37 weight distribution... Also without the VR it's not really the same car anymore. I can't see any other way to fix the nose heavy part, and the front drive part is pretty much a given. And I have gone the other way and put an even heavier engine out there.

Perhaps the 1.8T engine + a cast iron rear bumper would get us nearer 50/50? :D
Ha ha. Along with a weight penalty, and the reason I bought this car... VR6.... lol. I have a MK6 R that would rape my C in every performance aspect, but the Corrado is so much more fun to drive, and then there's the exhaust note that needs no further explanation.


Having just bought a house and the 9 week old at home, unfortunately the CF hood is out of the question. On to what's free, or free-ish, lol. My AC doesn't work and I plan on yanking everything but the evaporator (maybe eventually). Battery relocation I want to do, just need to see where to put it. (Plus there's the weight of the cable that'll need to be offset.... lol)

With as much room as there is between the engine and firewall, has anybody looked into moving the engine slightly rearward via redesigned motor mounts?


Back to suspension... Coilovers (well, decent ones) are out of my price range. How big an impact does corner balancing have on the car? Is it something that won't be noticed on public roads, maybe yielding a half a second on a 1:30 lap track? Or is it drastic?

Are the H&R/Neuspeed "Sport" springs of high enough rate to support the car around a circuit? They are seemingly much too soft for autox. Another thing is, with these springs, my front control arms are FLAT. I mean nearly perfectly level. The "race" springs look to have the outside of the controls arms higher than the inside... Isn't flat controls arms optimal geometry?

Then shocks. So what I don't like (and more than likely extremely dangerous on tracks with a descent crest) about my Koni Yellows is that the shocks are longer than the springs at full extension. Is there a better-matched shock out there? (front and rear) Would it be possible to have these cut down and matched? Not sure what would happen with the adjustment shank/shaft/screw that's on the end of the rod...
 
I don't think moving the engine is going to work. There's a really small window to get the driveshafts through. Rotating the engine? Perhaps, although raising the front to shift the engine's CG backwards will probably be a net negative.

Corner balancing is a thing that you need coilovers to do. You adjust the ride height a little bit to balance the weights on the wheels as you want. With conventional struts you would need to shim the springs, somehow, which I just can't see being practical.

The coils I have have the front control arms almost flat. I don't know the spring rates and I can't seem to find it online, it's an H&R RSS1865-4 kit. And, yeah, they were expensive, the coils, brakes, and supercharger cost twice what the car did (or more, don't want to add it up). These are great on a track, I have never been interested in autocross so I couldn't say for that.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
Looks like a 42DD CC.

I'm curious about that intake elbow... lol.

thprf, I understand the need for coilovers to corner balance, but what does corner balancing yield in reality? Trying to decide if, for my needs (not chasing every last tenth of a second per lap) if it's something I really need to do. It will be much cheaper getting peace of mind by getting shocks matched for these springs than completely replacing the setup.

Wayne, that shot is great, ha ha. Beautiful power distribution too, but that might be why you have that extra 3% unbalance :p

Also looks like your ISV is gone.. are you OBD2? Guessing not because of the dizzy. Do you have to fiddle with your idle stop seasonally or was it set-and-forget?
 
I love those calipers, and I wish they had dust boots - I'd have a set on my car.

Which catch can is that? I need something to replace the lashup job on my supercharged VR.
Yup--42DD Ultimate Oil Catch Can. Very nicely designed with lots of mounting options. It came with a couple different brackets. Running short on room, I decided to mount it to the strut tower brace. I found a stainless split collar from McMaster, milled one side of the collar split to compensate for the bracket thickness and it's a winner.

If it makes you feel any better, I've had those Dynalite calipers (with no dust boots) since 1995 and have never touched them and never had an issue. I've even run a few winters with them on the car. Not a friendly climate here in Minnesota...

The Dynapro's have dust boots and you can get them in the same configuration.
 
Looks like a 42DD CC.

I'm curious about that intake elbow... lol.

thprf, I understand the need for coilovers to corner balance, but what does corner balancing yield in reality? Trying to decide if, for my needs (not chasing every last tenth of a second per lap) if it's something I really need to do. It will be much cheaper getting peace of mind by getting shocks matched for these springs than completely replacing the setup.

Wayne, that shot is great, ha ha. Beautiful power distribution too, but that might be why you have that extra 3% unbalance :p

Also looks like your ISV is gone.. are you OBD2? Guessing not because of the dizzy. Do you have to fiddle with your idle stop seasonally or was it set-and-forget?
Intake elbow is from 42DD as well. Very nicely made.

I was planning on installing a stereo a long time ago. I've since changed my mind since I don't want the added weight in the car and I love the sound of the engine anyway. I probably could've gone smaller than 00 positives and grounds.

ISV is still there. Yup--OBD1.
 
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