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mikeme

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
anyone have an idea what exactly sources the oil temperature display?

used VCDS to log some values, and the oil temperature options don't seem to match the value shown in the MFD on the instrument panel (between spedo and tach)

it also seems to read --- until the engine is pretty well into the warm up.
 
anyone have an idea what exactly sources the oil temperature display?

used VCDS to log some values, and the oil temperature options don't seem to match the value shown in the MFD on the instrument panel (between spedo and tach)

it also seems to read --- until the engine is pretty well into the warm up.
Have you considered that the VCDS reading is from an earlier time, not current. And the --- reading is exactly how it should work.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
My comparison of vcds is with the mfd option set to Celsius

the numbers do not match.

Nothing displayed on the instrument panel comes direct from any sensor, it is all a form of computer display.
 
Here's how it works. There is a temp sensor on your engine. The wire from it goes to the ECU. The ECU uses that info for things like engine mapping and other things. The ECU throws the temp info out on the CAN and the instrument cluster gets it's info from that. How the instrument cluster is coded or programmed is whatever VW wanted it to be. If you put a CAN sniffer on the car you will find lots of info. For temp, just look at your water temp. The gauge is like every car has been for the last 25 years. It's buffered to read in the middle most of the time to make you happy. As for the oil temp, maybe it's not the actual oil temp but in the end, it doesn't really matter unless you are going to race the car. As for not delivering the temp below 120, it doesn't matter.

It's like in racing. I program a dash to only tell you the info you need and an alarm comes on along with the data when something is wrong. Honestly, you should not be fixated on excess info from the dash.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Hopefully this is an academic discussion. the point is to understand the design and what normal behavior is.

the VCDS I use is a VW specific aftermarket scan tool set, and provides visibility and logging capability of many parameter values provided by various modules in the car. (I take care to properly use it and not examine display or change controls while the car is under way.)

coolant temps are different, and as observed, the coolant display is programmed to point straight up over a range of temperature values, (around 70 degrees f spread)

Coolant temperature control in the 1.8l engine is quite a complicated design, and the actual coolant temperature jigs and jags much more than an older design would.



my observation on the oil temperature was a little surprising to me, and suggests that the display value represents some combination of values. the blank at lower temperatures may represent a different input that is combined with the reported oil temperature, which is not available at lower temps.

Perhaps this discussion belongs in a different thread.
 
Hopefully this is an academic discussion. the point is to understand the design and what normal behavior is.

the VCDS I use is a VW specific aftermarket scan tool set, and provides visibility and logging capability of many parameter values provided by various modules in the car. (I take care to properly use it and not examine display or change controls while the car is under way.)

coolant temps are different, and as observed, the coolant display is programmed to point straight up over a range of temperature values, (around 70 degrees f spread)

Coolant temperature control in the 1.8l engine is quite a complicated design, and the actual coolant temperature jigs and jags much more than an older design would.



my observation on the oil temperature was a little surprising to me, and suggests that the display value represents some combination of values. the blank at lower temperatures may represent a different input that is combined with the reported oil temperature, which is not available at lower temps.

Perhaps this discussion belongs in a different thread.
Don't assume the data reported from the ECU is current. It may be something recorded at some earlier time.
 
I know what a VCDS is. I don't know what you are asking. I do it again:

Coolant Temp Sensor has a wire that runs to the ECU. Then that temp is relayed to the CAN. Instrument cluster finds that info and displays it however VW wants it to be displayed.

Oil Temp Tensor has a wire that runs to the ECU. Then that temp is relayed to the CAN. Instrument cluster finds that info and displays it however VW wants it to be displayed.

Oil Temp sensor is part of the oil level sensor which is located in the oil pan. Water Temp is in the engine.

If you want to know what the exact temp is, then use your VCDS. If you have an AIM dash, use the VW template and look at channel #3 for coolant temp and channel #13 for oil temp. Manufacturers buffer the temp because the problem was that in the old days, when the temp would vary all over the place because of things like ambient temp and things like being on the highway in the middle of summer, running the AC, then come to a sudden stop, the water and oil shoot up, thus people would panic.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
The coolant temperature is mapped to start to move around 120f, and read straight up from something like 165 to 235 or so.

as suggested, this is to reassure the driver that up is normal. lower means still warming up, a bit to the right means the car is working hard. too far to the right, and something is wrong.

my question is how the displayed oil temperature maps to the reported oil temperature as accessed via VCDS.

(and other discussion on the oil temperatures.)

first of all, am I correct seeing a difference between the VCDS oil temperature and that reported in the MFD?

and then, is there some relationship that anyone has figured out that makes sense?
 
What you are explaining are calibration curves. For every German car over the last 20 years, the temp is transmitted to the CAN. The instrument cluster reads that info (i.e. wheel speed, engine speed, fuel level, check engine light, etc.). For each gauge, there's a calibration curve. It's an X-Y plot. So X is the number the ECU transmits and Y is the displayed number in the cluster. Technically, it should be linear but it is not. It might be linear to a point and then the curve becomes parallel to the X axis for a period of time (i.e. if the gauge reads 190 that could be everything from 170 – 220) and then will go up again.

For example, on an e46 BMW, the water temp reads just slightly over half. When we stick in an AIM dash and read the info directly from the CAN, the temp is anywhere from 170-225. It literally will go from that normal area to the red at 230. Originally, AIM made a mistake and the water temp always read 20 degrees too hot from actual. So, the calibration curve had to be changed to get it to read correctly. Even today, there's a company that you can send your e46 instrument cluster to and they will reprogram it to make the gauge read correctly.

As for your VW, best thing to do is to read the temps off of the CAN and then read what the cluster indicates. Then plot those numbers. At that point, you'll see what VW did and how far they are off from the real temp. You can either reporgram the cluster to read correctly or buy and AIM dash, or take the X and Y numbers, print them out and tape it to the dash or get one of those apps and a bluetooth OBDII reader with CAN capability or just plug in your VCDS link it to your phone. Maybe there's a way to get it to display the channels from the CAN.

What you need to do is log those X and Y numbers and post them. Then we will see how far off the cluster is to reality.
 
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