IMO, there are even on an accelerated decline (well before the covid-19 madness, that is)...
So after 30+ years, Lexus, Infiniti didn't catch up the zermans... why?
BlakeV
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Can't speak for Lexus but as for Infiniti..
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Infiniti never did particularly well. Lexus has always been popular. I think people keep them longer because they are genuinely more reliable.
I disagree the interiors are dated. I think they have some of the nicest design. Mercedes is too much and BMW is very generic.
I disagree the interiors are dated. I think they have some of the nicest design. Mercedes is too much and BMW is very generic.
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26,318 Posts
Vague thread is vague.
Up next, OP tells us all Lexus builds nothing that interests him thus the brand is a failure.
Up next, OP tells us all Lexus builds nothing that interests him thus the brand is a failure.
Different priorities. I think what the Germans prioritize better aligns with what Americans are after when it comes to luxury.
My last car was an Infiniti, and it was objectively good and reliable. But the interior was dull and dated (even for its time), it had a button for everything, and it was more noisy than it needed to be. Current Infiniti’s haven’t evolved a whole lot since that old 09 M35, so it’s easy to see why they’ve fallen way behind. They’re due for a massive lineup update. But it isn’t here yet and I’m not sure how soon it’s coming.
Lexus is always at least one generation behind on interior styling. But people like my mom love them.
Acura makes cars that a 16 year old would think are really cool, but they aren’t buying $40k+ luxury cars.
My last car was an Infiniti, and it was objectively good and reliable. But the interior was dull and dated (even for its time), it had a button for everything, and it was more noisy than it needed to be. Current Infiniti’s haven’t evolved a whole lot since that old 09 M35, so it’s easy to see why they’ve fallen way behind. They’re due for a massive lineup update. But it isn’t here yet and I’m not sure how soon it’s coming.
Lexus is always at least one generation behind on interior styling. But people like my mom love them.
Acura makes cars that a 16 year old would think are really cool, but they aren’t buying $40k+ luxury cars.
Don't think so. Mercedes mercs them (pun intended).
How did I overloook Acura so*easily ... :banghead:
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2,032 Posts
What do you mean by catch up?
The same way everyone who overlooks them does... they are meh.
Lexus got too deep into selling based on reliability to be able to take the technology and performance leaps that premium buyers pay higher transaction prices for.
Acura and Infiniti got too deep into to relying on being the cheap option for people who want a better brand than their neighbors Honda, Nissan, Toyota etc. but don’t want to pay for a BMW, MB etc.
I don’t know if it comes down to winning or losing, but more just having your spot in the industry. Something like RX or MDX has been very successful to a point where it doesn’t matter what it is better or worse than.
Acura and Infiniti got too deep into to relying on being the cheap option for people who want a better brand than their neighbors Honda, Nissan, Toyota etc. but don’t want to pay for a BMW, MB etc.
I don’t know if it comes down to winning or losing, but more just having your spot in the industry. Something like RX or MDX has been very successful to a point where it doesn’t matter what it is better or worse than.
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Are you counting their fleet sales? I dont really consider stripper taxis and work vans as luxury vehicles.
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I would say they have surprassed the Germans in all except "image". Way more reliable, better residual value, better quality control, better pricing, just as comfortable and same decently fast
Not sure now. I suppose that would inflate it significantly.
Mercedes peaked in the 80's. Simple, solid, tasteful, reliable, comfortable. Downhill since.
Honda & Toyota peaked in the early 90's. Downhill since.
Depending on who you ask, VW peaked in 1990-1992, or 2002-2004. Downhill since.
I'll give Audi a little wiggle room- and stretch it to 2008. Downhill since.
Many many reasons across all those brands. Direct injection, smaller motors, bad styling both inside and out, fake engine noise, smooshy clutch, shifter, and steering feel, dumb ass big wheels with rubber band thin tires, etc etc
Honda & Toyota peaked in the early 90's. Downhill since.
Depending on who you ask, VW peaked in 1990-1992, or 2002-2004. Downhill since.
I'll give Audi a little wiggle room- and stretch it to 2008. Downhill since.
Many many reasons across all those brands. Direct injection, smaller motors, bad styling both inside and out, fake engine noise, smooshy clutch, shifter, and steering feel, dumb ass big wheels with rubber band thin tires, etc etc
No offense to chocofrappe dude but the success of the CLA in America (along with the cringey glow in the dark emblem) showed me that German brands are omnipotent. Hell, the fact that the G-Wagen- a terrible street car- is a top ride in LA, shows how crazy the power of brand is. I wouldn't say Lexus flat out beats the Germans, but they've made better cars every now and then over the brand's history. The OG LS put the industry on notice. The RX300 invented the luxury crossover segment. Etc. No matter.
A lot of German cars are now derivative lease machines on the strength of their brands. There is no beating that. I just saw a 2GC today
A lot of German cars are now derivative lease machines on the strength of their brands. There is no beating that. I just saw a 2GC today
At least when it comes to Infiniti, it seems like they have just sort of given up. The 1st/2nd generation G35/37 and the M35/37/45/56 were competitive and even better than "the Germans" in some respects. They were the more entertaining, more reliable, less expensive, and less refined options. Then they sort of dropped the ball. I've owned two modern-ish Infinitis (the horror), and I can't say that anything they sell currently appeals to me all that much. Then again, nothing BMW or Mercedes makes does either. I'm curious how their plan to electrify everything turns out. Maybe they can make an electric motor feel like a VQ... make it not particularly smooth or efficient. If so, sign me up.
I'm not sure that Lexus didn't "catch up". The RX sells 2x more than the next best X5, the ES outsells the 5-series, and the IS... well, that doesn't sell. Those things went downhill after the first generation IS300.
I'm not sure that Lexus didn't "catch up". The RX sells 2x more than the next best X5, the ES outsells the 5-series, and the IS... well, that doesn't sell. Those things went downhill after the first generation IS300.
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