Is this the right mark for the cam gear? My cam gear has a dot and dash. I thought the dash was for the cam and the dot was for the intermediate shaft. I'm having trouble getting my engine to run properly but my marks appear to line up and I timed it with a light. I replaced all the vac lines. I just dont know how the car runs worse than before I did a bunch of work on it yet still has the original problem as well. I did the cam seal and thought I put it back the way it was but I dont know what's going on anymore. I did everything but crank bearings and piston rings.
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Cam Gear Orientation and Timing marks.
iesusko
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Is this the right mark for the cam gear? My cam gear has a dot and dash. I thought the dash was for the cam and the dot was for the intermediate shaft. I'm having trouble getting my engine to run properly but my marks appear to line up and I timed it with a light. I replaced all the vac lines. I just dont know how the car runs worse than before I did a bunch of work on it yet still has the original problem as well. I did the cam seal and thought I put it back the way it was but I dont know what's going on anymore. I did everything but crank bearings and piston rings.
![82967]( "82967")
![82968]( "82968")
I am having trouble finding which mark is the right one to use. As in did I put my cam gear on upside down. The marks line up, I am not sure it is the correct mark. Most show the dimple as the timing mark for the cam. I dont see how the car could run if I had the gear backwards but I just dont know.
Joined
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96 Posts
The dot should be facing the valve cover. Read the cabby-info page on timing and if you don't have a Bentley you should get one. in your situation I would say pull the #1 sparkplug and manually check for tdc. see where the cam gear lines up.
Joined
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732 Posts
Crank is at the 0 mark under the finger pointer on the bell housing.
The dimple on the back side of the cam is even to the valve cover tin not the rebar, the number one cam lobes are pointing straight up.
Remove the diz cap, rotor and shield, replace the rotor
The intermediate shaft is rotated so that your rotor is in the middle of the hash mark stamped on the side frame rear of the diz. Do not use the marks on the intermediate shafts to the crank pulley.
You then rotate the tensioner so that you have 1/2 deflection or twist of the belt with two fingers between the intermediate shaft and the cam pulley.
If you are devoid of the 0 mark on the flywheel which some replacement clutches don't have stamped, then you will have a Diamond cut if you look at the picture the 0 mark should be to the right of the Cut, right before the bolt.
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Pictures courtesy of Cabby-info.com (Thanks Kammy).
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The dimple on the back side of the cam is even to the valve cover tin not the rebar, the number one cam lobes are pointing straight up.
Remove the diz cap, rotor and shield, replace the rotor
The intermediate shaft is rotated so that your rotor is in the middle of the hash mark stamped on the side frame rear of the diz. Do not use the marks on the intermediate shafts to the crank pulley.
You then rotate the tensioner so that you have 1/2 deflection or twist of the belt with two fingers between the intermediate shaft and the cam pulley.
If you are devoid of the 0 mark on the flywheel which some replacement clutches don't have stamped, then you will have a Diamond cut if you look at the picture the 0 mark should be to the right of the Cut, right before the bolt.
Pictures courtesy of Cabby-info.com (Thanks Kammy).
For those who are posting how to time a car, that's not what I'm asking.
So if you look at my picture the dot is on the tooth and the line is between the teeth. Every cam has a different dot and line from what I have seen. Most of the dimples I have seen in the pictures are between the teeth like the one you posted a link to in the other person's post. My gear does not have the OT line. It has the metal cover. My cam gear and intermediate gear are identical and the dot for sure is what is used for the itermediate shaft. So what is the line for? I'm just trying to make sure it is backwards and not just a different marking system. I guess I can always look at the cam lobes and know for certain.
So if you look at my picture the dot is on the tooth and the line is between the teeth. Every cam has a different dot and line from what I have seen. Most of the dimples I have seen in the pictures are between the teeth like the one you posted a link to in the other person's post. My gear does not have the OT line. It has the metal cover. My cam gear and intermediate gear are identical and the dot for sure is what is used for the itermediate shaft. So what is the line for? I'm just trying to make sure it is backwards and not just a different marking system. I guess I can always look at the cam lobes and know for certain.
Joined
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96 Posts
Ok so i just went down to look at my cam gear and my dot is on the tooth. however, I have a plastic cover so I align to the:
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O|T not the dot aligned to the edge of the valve cover. All that said: it doesnt really matter because you can verify it all. Pull the #1 sparkplug and the valve cover. Verify TDC on the piston, the flywheel, the distributor and finally, the cam. Its a non-interference engine so you don't have to worry about bending the valves. If it is actually off: mark where TDC is with a file and a bit of nail polish or whatever.
if you need to: buy a new cam gear for 16 dollars:
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O|T not the dot aligned to the edge of the valve cover. All that said: it doesnt really matter because you can verify it all. Pull the #1 sparkplug and the valve cover. Verify TDC on the piston, the flywheel, the distributor and finally, the cam. Its a non-interference engine so you don't have to worry about bending the valves. If it is actually off: mark where TDC is with a file and a bit of nail polish or whatever.
if you need to: buy a new cam gear for 16 dollars:
Audi VW Timing Camshaft Gear - Febi Bilstein 049109111C
Audi VW Timing Camshaft Gear - Febi Bilstein 049109111C
www.fcpeuro.com
On a 90ish there is the 0|T that aligns on the arrow of the timing cover back plate. How ever there is a dot on the back of the cam gear that is even to the valve cover tin on the rear of the cam.
Now the 16V has a line stamp and not a dimple on the Cam Gear, so it may be possible that the wrong cam gear is on your car. But in the Bentley you still align it to the plane of the head.
Do not time your car by the intermediate gear to the crank pulley. Just make sure that when you are at 0 time, the rotor of the Diz is in the middle of the hash.
Now the 16V has a line stamp and not a dimple on the Cam Gear, so it may be possible that the wrong cam gear is on your car. But in the Bentley you still align it to the plane of the head.
Do not time your car by the intermediate gear to the crank pulley. Just make sure that when you are at 0 time, the rotor of the Diz is in the middle of the hash.
Ok I have some updates. When I did the belt the flywheel and trans were off the engine. Engine was out of the car. Just fyi.
When I turn the engine clockwise to 6dbtdc the #1 piston just reaches the top of its stroke and stops. Below are the pics of when I am at tdc.
I first timed the car via static timing. It ran poorly so I used a cheap HF timing light to time it to the 6deg mark. It still ran poorly.
The dash for the distributor looks off but it was close when I did the static timing. I dont know why it's so far off but I could chalk it up to the HF light.
As far as I can tell the cam gear could go either way and be close. When it is on tdc the #1 cam lobes point up. If I had it the other it would be close to the same as the dot is almost 175degs away from the line. When you flip it the dot would be only a few degs away from where the dash is. There are one or two things I want to try before I take all the belts pulleys back off but it looks like it could be upside down.
The part number on my gear is 049109111b not c but I think it's just the older model. Not sure.
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When I turn the engine clockwise to 6dbtdc the #1 piston just reaches the top of its stroke and stops. Below are the pics of when I am at tdc.
I first timed the car via static timing. It ran poorly so I used a cheap HF timing light to time it to the 6deg mark. It still ran poorly.
The dash for the distributor looks off but it was close when I did the static timing. I dont know why it's so far off but I could chalk it up to the HF light.
As far as I can tell the cam gear could go either way and be close. When it is on tdc the #1 cam lobes point up. If I had it the other it would be close to the same as the dot is almost 175degs away from the line. When you flip it the dot would be only a few degs away from where the dash is. There are one or two things I want to try before I take all the belts pulleys back off but it looks like it could be upside down.
The part number on my gear is 049109111b not c but I think it's just the older model. Not sure.
Please disregard what is said below Check Final Edit on #17
I got creative and thought why not line up the dot with the edge on the opposite side of the cover. This would theoretically be in the correct alignment after being flipped around. The cams are still closed but one looks like it may open prematurely. So I actually am thinking the dash is the correct mark. What do you guys think?
Edit: Ok, I thought about it and I do think that the way the cam is below can't be at tdc when using the dimple. The exhaust lobe is roughly parallel to the valve cover in the picture. We know that cylinder #1 will rotate twice as many degrees as the cam. If we rotate #1 180 degrees then the exhaust valve should move 90degs and will be all the way open when #1 has reached the end of the power stroke. It should be closed during the power stroke so I can't see how that would be right. The exhaust valve should be fully open during the middle of the exhaust stroke right, not at the end of power? So I think my cam gear is right but I'm not an expert on this at all. I would greatly appreciate anyone's thoughts on this or if someone has a pic of cam lobes at tdc. Hopefully this makes sense.
![83446]( "83446")
![83447]( "83447")
![83448]( "83448")
I got creative and thought why not line up the dot with the edge on the opposite side of the cover. This would theoretically be in the correct alignment after being flipped around. The cams are still closed but one looks like it may open prematurely. So I actually am thinking the dash is the correct mark. What do you guys think?
Edit: Ok, I thought about it and I do think that the way the cam is below can't be at tdc when using the dimple. The exhaust lobe is roughly parallel to the valve cover in the picture. We know that cylinder #1 will rotate twice as many degrees as the cam. If we rotate #1 180 degrees then the exhaust valve should move 90degs and will be all the way open when #1 has reached the end of the power stroke. It should be closed during the power stroke so I can't see how that would be right. The exhaust valve should be fully open during the middle of the exhaust stroke right, not at the end of power? So I think my cam gear is right but I'm not an expert on this at all. I would greatly appreciate anyone's thoughts on this or if someone has a pic of cam lobes at tdc. Hopefully this makes sense.
The cam is not aligned. The lobs for cylinder one should be as high as you can get them. A you can see with your pictures, one is up and one is pressing against the lifter. That for certain is not right.
Again, there are probably hundreds of pictures of a VW engine cam timing. No reason to keep coming here. This engine has been around so long and it's not that hard with all the information that is out there.
Again, there are probably hundreds of pictures of a VW engine cam timing. No reason to keep coming here. This engine has been around so long and it's not that hard with all the information that is out there.
@tolusina @Butcher
Welp I'm just trying to say that if you have the one that has a "b" at the end of the part number it's not a dot but a dash for the cam timing. I took your advice Butcher and searched for a while to find a post on cam timing where someone says the cam lobes for #1 Should be at 10 and 2. If you look at post #13 where I have my timing mark, the dash, in the correct position you will see that they are at 10 and 2. Now post #14 is aligning it to the dot as if it were flipped. Meaning that if I flipped my cam gear to use the DOT that is where the lobes would be. I could still have it wrong IDK sorry for annoying everyone.
Edit: Post 14 is wrong actually. Somehow I thought the key was on the same radius line as the dot but looking back it's on the opposite side. So I guess I'll have to figure it out sorry again.
Final Edit and Conclusion to this mess of a thread lul:
Heres hoping that this is useful to someone. In short the statement above is correct for me but could differ for others with the same part number. My mark is the dash.
After searching images for what felt like forever I finally found my gear. Apparently there are lots of versions of 049109111b so, ymmv. I can say that the mark, whatever it may be, for what I think to be all of the 049109111b, will be between the teeth. Dot or dash who can say. On my gear it is a dash. My dot is on the radius of key and I believe it to match the pic I added below. If I was to rotate it 180deg upon this radial line, the mark would be in the same position just on the other side. When aligning this with the cover it is opening a valve so it definitively is not the mark, see below the incorrect alignment using the wrong timing mark.
I made thumbnails because it's a lot of photos.
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Please observe the position of the marks relative to the key. The cam mark is like 25deg relative to the key, the intermediate mark is in line with the key.
Cam Gear with Dots
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Cam Gear with Dash and Dot(Identical to mine)
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Welp I'm just trying to say that if you have the one that has a "b" at the end of the part number it's not a dot but a dash for the cam timing. I took your advice Butcher and searched for a while to find a post on cam timing where someone says the cam lobes for #1 Should be at 10 and 2. If you look at post #13 where I have my timing mark, the dash, in the correct position you will see that they are at 10 and 2. Now post #14 is aligning it to the dot as if it were flipped. Meaning that if I flipped my cam gear to use the DOT that is where the lobes would be. I could still have it wrong IDK sorry for annoying everyone.
Edit: Post 14 is wrong actually. Somehow I thought the key was on the same radius line as the dot but looking back it's on the opposite side. So I guess I'll have to figure it out sorry again.
Final Edit and Conclusion to this mess of a thread lul:
Heres hoping that this is useful to someone. In short the statement above is correct for me but could differ for others with the same part number. My mark is the dash.
After searching images for what felt like forever I finally found my gear. Apparently there are lots of versions of 049109111b so, ymmv. I can say that the mark, whatever it may be, for what I think to be all of the 049109111b, will be between the teeth. Dot or dash who can say. On my gear it is a dash. My dot is on the radius of key and I believe it to match the pic I added below. If I was to rotate it 180deg upon this radial line, the mark would be in the same position just on the other side. When aligning this with the cover it is opening a valve so it definitively is not the mark, see below the incorrect alignment using the wrong timing mark.
I made thumbnails because it's a lot of photos.
Please observe the position of the marks relative to the key. The cam mark is like 25deg relative to the key, the intermediate mark is in line with the key.
Cam Gear with Dots
Cam Gear with Dash and Dot(Identical to mine)
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