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Play in newly installed front wheel bearing

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Old Reliable

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hey VWer's -

Hope you can shed some insight on my dilemma and the issue I'm having on my 1985 GTI.
  • Installed a new Schaeffler (F.A.G.) front wheel bearing on drivers side no issues using a OEM brand wheel hub kit: (https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-...staller/p/oemtools-forward-bearing-remover-and-installer-kit-23-piece/94804_0_0)
  • When doing the passenger side, there was a significant amount of play after installing the hub into the bearing (using the original hubs on both sides as they were in good condition).
  • I removed the new bearing and exchanged it for another one. I received it in the mail today and to my dismay, had the same amount of side-to-side play. This of course with it all still on the bench. Did not install it as I figured there should be no play at all in the assembly. After all, this is a sign of a bad bearing in the first place.

Questions:
  • Could I have just have bad luck getting 2 bad bearings in a row?
  • Do I return it and try a third one?
  • Is it the old hub? Didn't have any issues from the drivers side using the old hub.
  • I am applying a thin amount of anti-seize to both the outer and inner bearing for easy installation and removal in the future; don't see this a factor in what is 1/16" of play but wanted to mention it.

Thanks for any insights!
 
#2 ·
can you elaborate a little more, is there play in the hub after pressing it into the bearing before apply the correct drive axle torque? the bearing set is a taper roller bearing and will take up the bearing play once the correct preload is applied to the bearing by torque on the drive axle nut. Or is the play because the hub shaft diameter is physically smaller than the internal bearing diameter?
For greasing I believe Bentley calls for moly grease inside the steering knuckle on the outer surface of the bearing, no grease applied to the hub or inside the bearing.
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the help, SorryBro. I have the knuckle with the new pressed in bearing (and hub) still in the vise on my bench. This is where I am experiencing the 1/16" side-to-side play. Have not re-mounted on the car yet. I did for kicks install an old outer CV joint from a recent job into the hub spline and hand tighten the hub nut to see what it would do. No improvement; the hub and CV joint both wiggled. Did not have it tightened to spec, but don't see how it would change anything as its tightening the CV joint spline to the hub. The bearing would still wiggle, no?? But you sound like it would take up the slack/play, is that correct??

I can grab the hub and wiggle it and while watching the back side of the bearing assembly in the knuckle, see the entire orange seal move side-to-side and up-and-down. The outer hub nor the hub shaft do not move of course as they are firmly pressed in. Tried attaching a short video to show the play, but it didn't work. Attached a pic, but it doesn't show the play of course.

Hoping all this can give a better description that you are asking for; really do appreciate the help!
 
#4 ·
The CV joint actually presses on the back side of the inner race of the bearing and not the hub, if you have pressed the hub in correctly (and you have in your picture) you will notice the hub is too short to actually stick out the bearing on the other side. The CV joint pulls the hub and outer race of the bearing closer to the inner race of the bearing. Yes there are 2 bearings inside the wheel bearing (you can see the split on the inside of new bearing), and hand tight wont make a difference the torque if I remember correctly but don't quote me is 147ft/lbs a little more than hand tight lol (check your Bentley for the correct tightening procedure).
1/16th is a bit much though I would not expect it to move that much, whenever I do wheel bearings I use my bearing press tool which the threaded rod type and apply 30ft/lbs of preload on the bearing just to give it some preload. With 30ft/lbs there should be drag on the bearing and no wobble.
Hope this helps
 
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#5 ·
from experience!!

ive used those kits and they absolutely suck!!!

issue is the bearing doesnt sit correctly and will moved and slide.

i went thru the same problem.

on my third bearing i took hub completely off the car and used a press. if i remember i used old bearing case so it would in smooth and froze the bearing over night.

also make sure the bearing is correct. i think early mk2 used one size and late mk2/mk3 used a different size.

also found with the hubs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#6 ·
First off, the bearing is NOT a "tapered roller" design. It has two ball bearing bearings with very little grease. Your concerns are probably not valid. As stated, the bearings are squeezed together with application of the axle and nut.

I have seen spindle housings that have gotten hot and distorted from people running the bearing long after it has deceased.

I can't imagine anyone would allow you to "swap out" a bearing which you installed. Insane.

The bearings are not stable without the cv joint in place. THIS is why you can not roll around a vehicle with the axles removed......unless you pop in a cv joint and tighten it with the external nut.
 
#7 ·
The only way the bearing got messed up is from the bearing press - it does happen.
If that bearing has play after install, it got pressed on in a bad way. Bearing tool is supposed to push
ONLY on the outer race.
Try again. The cheap brand mk2 front bearings are DIRT CHEAP at rockauto.
You could buy a dozen for the price of one from autozone.
Pick you up some brakes, rotors, and 1/2 dozen oil filters while you're at it.
 
#8 ·
I believe the only "tightness" test is with the knuckle on the car with the cv tightened to spec. Put a wheel on and check for top to bottom play. I don't think wiggle on a vise means anything. Tightening the cv will set the bearing and hub into the correct position.
 
#10 ·
Prairie said:
First off, the bearing is NOT a "tapered roller" design. It has two ball bearing bearings with very little grease. Your concerns are probably not valid. As stated, the bearings are squeezed together with application of the axle and nut.

I have seen spindle housings that have gotten hot and distorted from people running the bearing long after it has deceased.

I can't imagine anyone would allow you to "swap out" a bearing which you installed. Insane.

The bearings are not stable without the cv joint in place. THIS is why you can not roll around a vehicle with the axles removed......unless you pop in a cv joint and tighten it with the external nut.
Click to expand...
So technically yes not a tapered roller bearing but I using the same analogy to describe the angular contact style ball bearing design without getting super technical, however both tapered and angular contact ball bearings rely on preload for correct bearing operation. Without preload from the drive shaft and hub via the drive shaft nut the bearing will exhibit free play, how much free play I would not know without consulting the manufactures standards.

As a side note I have found that Schaeffler wheel bearings to be far superior at a good budget cost points than most bearings and I have replaced worn our front wheel bearings in my Mk2 at least 3 or 4 times. A few times because of cheap bearings lasting only a few miles, however my go to bearing has been Schaeffler for a while now, so I suspect there may be something more wrong than just the bearing.
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
Want to say thank you for all the help on what was a first time project for me. Learned a lot about how pressed in bearings work and will take it with me when I do this same job next week on my daughters '96 Jetta.

Recap: Mounted the assembled knuckle today and like most said, drawing up the drive shaft removed that play that I was experiencing in the vise. Will try and take it for a test drive tomorrow and if all good, will get an alignment.

Follow-up Question: I know one of the ways to test for a bad bearing is to jack the car up and grab the tire at 9 & 3 and test for play (which was my concern when I had it in the vise). This is still with the drive shaft bolted into the hub of course. So with trying this test and play is experienced, then at this point, it truly is the bearing breaking down, correct?
I know the answer is yes, but still can't help think that any play (even in the vise) is a bad sign, but this exercise has proven that I'm overthinking it all-LOL. I need to refer to SorryBro's explaination in #4 of this thread...

Thanks again! Its a great help to be able to reach out in a pinch and find just what is needed!
 
#12 ·
Old Reliable said:
Want to say thank you for all the help on what was a first time project for me. Learned a lot about how pressed in bearings work and will take it with me when I do this same job next week on my daughters '96 Jetta.

Recap: Mounted the assembled knuckle today and like most said, drawing up the drive shaft removed that play that I was experiencing in the vise. Will try and take it for a test drive tomorrow and if all good, will get an alignment.

Follow-up Question: I know one of the ways to test for a bad bearing is to jack the car up and grab the tire at 9 & 3 and test for play (which was my concern when I had it in the vise). This is still with the drive shaft bolted into the hub of course. So with trying this test and play is experienced, then at this point, it truly is the bearing breaking down, correct?
I know the answer is yes, but still can't help think that any play (even in the vise) is a bad sign, but this exercise has proven that I'm overthinking it all-LOL. I need to refer to SorryBro's explaination in #4 of this thread...

Thanks again! Its a great help to be able to reach out in a pinch and find just what is needed!
Click to expand...
At 9 and 3 position you will feel play in the tie rod inner and outer joints so be careful not to confuse these with bearing play. At 12 and 6 you will feel play in the lower ball joint and lower control arm bushings so again don’t mistake these for wheel bearing play. I would prefer a driving evaluation for a worn wheel bearing coasting in neutral at various speeds with light cornering you will hear a humming wheel bearing if it’s going or worn.
you can use the 9 and 3 and 12 and 6 method just don’t mistake it for worn ball joints and worn bushings.
hope that helps.
 
#13 ·
I think just feeling for play by hand is more for the rear wheel bearings.
(first web search result) 5 Symptoms of a Bad Wheel Bearings (Diagnosing Wheel Bearing Noise)

Improper install (pressing into the hub) or putting the vehicle weight on the bearing withing the cv axle
in and tightened are the biggest reasons for short front bearing life.
Even a cheap bearing with skimped grease will last a long time if installed properly.
 
#14 ·
As SorryBro said the 9 - 3 and 12 - 6 are good checks for tie rods and ball joints, that being said; if you do feel anything more than a wishful wiggle, investigate where the play is. It's not hard to find, sometimes it is a loose strut tube cap allowing too much play for the strut or a bad strut bearing on top. Just chase it down. Good luck
 
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