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GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it.

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Nomolag

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Took my van in to have the keyfob reprogrammed and I had an opportunity to spend some time on the GM lot.
Sat in a new Malibu Maxx. Kind of odd looking, but it's growing on me. First thing that impressed me was the interior. This did not feel like any prior GM interior that I'd ever been in. Very classy. Same story with the G6. Just comparing the numbers with the leftover Grand Am's I think GM is going to have a hard time getting rid of the old GA's. Better fuel mileage, better engine, eons better interior, less money and the styling is very cool.
Anyone seen the LaCrosse in person? Very nice looking and the interior is sweet.
Then I sat down in a Cobalt. This is a cool car. Even the 4 door is kind of funky. The door pulls feel pretty good (much better than the Cavalier) and the interior is quite classy. Feels much more expensive than it is. Even the Aveo has a nice interior.
I must say that I'm quite impressed and I feel that if people would just put their brand bias aside, they'll find GM has some fantastic products out there.
For the record, I'm not a GM guy, so to speak, but I'm quite please with my recent purchase, obnoxious radio buttons and all.
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Chris
 
#2 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (Nomolag)

yep, the anti-GM people can say what they want, they're really not all that bad. Especially the new stuff, they're getting better and better as the years go by.
Good to hear some positive stuff for a change.
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#3 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (Nomolag)

ah, i think GM needs to be more creative with more of their cars, some of them are just plain boring, they make a lot of them look the same! they sell good cars, they just don't look "fun".
GM cars are getting better though actually! i think Pontiacs cars are getting very sporty (actually, they've looked great and fun for years)! and though the GTO is a look-a-like to the Holden Monaro only with a Pontiac badge, i'm actually beginning to like it (for one, the interior is awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif)! and i've always loved Cadillacs! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and the new 'vette...you know.
i really like Chrysler & Ford (they're on a big roll)! and i am liking GM more as time goes on. yes, GM is getting better!
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#4 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (Nomolag)

GM is definately on the rise with its new products.
I'll be looking at the new STS in a year or two once they're available for a price I can afford (aka a few years old used).
The G6 is amazing, as is the C6.
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On the other hand, Ford has some interesting products too. The new FiveHundred is appealing to me. It might make a good replacement for my Scorpio.
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Chrysler, while it has some interesting, and stylish new products, materials chosen for the 300C don't exactly scream "high quality".
 
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#5 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (candywhitepassat)

I too think that GM seems to be turning a corner. Four years ago, in the aftermath of the Aztek introduction and the decision to axe Oldsmobile, many people on the Vortex were predicting (rightly or wrongly) doom and gloom for GM.
Can't believe so much has changed in the years since, not just industry wise but forum wise too. But hey, at least memories of those days when I had limitless time on my hand are still fresh in my mind
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#6 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (David Votoupal)

GM's turned the corner? Really? Says who?
Certainly not Wall Street, who reduced GM's investment status to one step above junk, and who foresee lowered first quarter profits in '05 due to cut production of high-profit SUVs and pick-ups, and no plan to create other sources of revenue to replace that.
Certainly not consumers, who dropped GM's market share to its lowest ever last month--24.8%--despite the fact that incentives are nearly as high as ever.
GM's road to redemption is long and desolate, and their journey has only just begun.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (bgluckman)

Well, stock prices have no direct correlation to product, nor do sales to a certain extent. Yes, I understand that you have to have product to make sales, but if your product previously sucked then you'll suffer the consequences when you bring out a better product.
Brian, you're awfully down on GM. Give them a shot, they offer quite a bit of content and I'd say they're downright competetive. I would shop a Malibu Maxx against a Camry any day, and I've owned 4 Camries.
Could there be just a slight bit of competition to your babies, the Koren car gang?
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Chris
 
#8 ·
I think Chrysler's on the hottest hot-streak right now, started by the Crossfire and SRT4, and kept rolling by the Magnum/300 duo.
Great comeback story. If you ask me, it all started with the Viper. Way back when they needed to send a message that they're alive, the Viper was it. Fast forward to now, It was a long and hard climb, but they made it, big.
I think GM has a pretty wide offering, and seems to be appealing to more than the appliance vehicle market. The appliances are a touch cooler. Plus, they have the most cars that quicken my pulse: Caddy CTS, Caddy XLR, C5-->C6, G6, GTO, Solstice...whoo-chil'!!
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I'm still pissed about there being no replacements for the Camaro and Caprice, though.
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Gotta address that, especially with the new Mustang and Magnum out.
Ford, I don't see a big jump for them. They seem pretty steady as far as their lineup goes. Their trucks have really carried them, especially since the Taurus was run off the road by the Camry and Accord. The shortish list of cars seems well rounded, but personally, all I care about are the Five Hunderd, Focus, and Mustang. Speaking of which, I will be buying the Mustang when the 2006 model year comes out.
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#9 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (Nomolag)

Quote, originally posted by Nomolag »
Well, stock prices have no direct correlation to product, nor do sales to a certain extent. Yes, I understand that you have to have product to make sales, but if your product previously sucked then you'll suffer the consequences when you bring out a better product.

The investment rating is separate from stock price. The investment rating is based not only on existing financial conditions, but also future product as well--which Wall Street has already seen, before us, the end consumers.
Just for comparison, when those same Wall Street analysts saw the new products from Chrysler that'll be coming out over the next 18 months, they upgraded DC's investment rating.
Quote, originally posted by Nomolag »
Brian, you're awfully down on GM. Give them a shot, they offer quite a bit of content and I'd say they're downright competetive. I would shop a Malibu Maxx against a Camry any day, and I've owned 4 Camries.

The Maxx is an OK car, but here's the question: would you pay sticker on the Maxx (no rebates, no discounts) over the Toyota? I sure wouldn't, and I don't think many other people would, either.
And if I seem down on GM, it's because I really believe they can do better.
Quote, originally posted by Nomolag »
Could there be just a slight bit of competition to your babies, the Koren car gang?

I'm all for more competition, believe me. Don't think that I believe everything Hyundai and Kia are doing is positive--I don't. But I think they're closer to the right path than GM is right now.
 
#10 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (Nomolag)

I agree for the most part, especially about the Cobalt. Personally, even more than cars like the C6 or Solstice, I think the Cobalt will play the largest role in GM's turnaround. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
However, the main problem I have with some of the other new products you mentioned is that while they are substantially improved, they still fall below the benchmarks. And what GM needs now more than ever, are class-leading products to attract people back into its showrooms, not cars that are just "good enough."
Just as Toyota/Honda had an uphill battle trying to get people out of their domestics (although the gas crisis sure did help), GM will have to be aggressive in getting those same customers back.
 
#11 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (Nomolag)

I agree - GM is getting competitive again. I've been shopping for a proper family hauler/cruiser, and GM's lineup is looking really good of late. So good in fact, I'm trading in the STi for a loaded Malibu Maxx before the week is out. It's one hell of a nice car for the going price.
James
 
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#12 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (bgluckman)

Quote, originally posted by bgluckman »
The investment rating is separate from stock price. The investment rating is based not only on existing financial conditions, but also future product as well--which Wall Street has already seen, before us, the end consumers.

Indeed, but it's important to keep in mind that GM isn't really a car company. It's a pension fund and finance company that also happens to build cars. Sounds cute, but look at the sizes of its funds! It has huge liabilities in the pension area and that's a big reason that it's not worth much.
 
#13 ·
Re: (Big M)

Quote, originally posted by Big M »
I think Chrysler's on the hottest hot-streak right now, started by the Crossfire and SRT4, and kept rolling by the Magnum/300 duo.
Great comeback story. If you ask me, it all started with the Viper.

I see Chrysler as a manic depressive company - kinda like VW. They release an innovative product, then bungle quality issue or general business decisions and enter a bust. Dodge Caravan -> bust in early 1990's. Viper, Dodge Ram, intrepid, stratus, et al -> bust in late 1990's, then Daimler merger. PT Cruiser, 300C, return of the hemi -> ??.
VW I see as the same way lots of hits over the years, and then fading into bust cycles. In the early 1990's they almost left the US, struggled to the release of the mk4 Jetta and mk5 Passat, and went on a boon until quality, old product, and POOR POOR management decision (VW up-market & phaeton, much?) has fallen into another (albeit smaller) bust cycle.
But to get back on topic...
Quote, originally posted by Big M »

I think GM has a pretty wide offering, and seems to be appealing to more than the appliance vehicle market.

This I agree with. Their products are improving. I dig the STS and the C6. They are showing people they are hungry. I respect that. They are starting to gain momentum, I feel, and weaning themselves off dependence on their trucks.
However, until they do away with their huge cash incentives and financing deals to move product, they will not get far. Their incentives are a deadly cycle; if you know you gotta sell for X below your sticker, you gotta cut content and quality in anticipation. They could pull a Chrysler or VW and get people in the door with great product, but lose them with quality.
It should also be noted that as of last month, GM and Ford sales have taken hits.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12....html

Quote, originally posted by Big M »

Ford, I don't see a big jump for them.

Agreed, for the same reason I see trouble for GM.
 
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#14 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (MixmasterNash)

Quote, originally posted by MixmasterNash »
Indeed, but it's important to keep in mind that GM isn't really a car company. It's a pension fund and finance company that also happens to build cars. Sounds cute, but look at the sizes of its funds! It has huge liabilities in the pension area and that's a big reason that it's not worth much.

Another big reason their stock is in the tank.
 
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#15 ·
I really don't mind their lineup that much
 
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Discussion starter · #16 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (bgluckman)

Quote, originally posted by bgluckman »

The investment rating is separate from stock price. The investment rating is based not only on existing financial conditions, but also future product as well--which Wall Street has already seen, before us, the end consumers.
Just for comparison, when those same Wall Street analysts saw the new products from Chrysler that'll be coming out over the next 18 months, they upgraded DC's investment rating.

Thanks for enlightening me on the concept of investment rating. Learn something new everyday.
Quote, originally posted by bgluckman »

The Maxx is an OK car, but here's the question: would you pay sticker on the Maxx (no rebates, no discounts) over the Toyota? I sure wouldn't, and I don't think many other people would, either.
And if I seem down on GM, it's because I really believe they can do better.

Ah, but I wouldn't pay sticker price for a Camry either. And if their prices were the same, I'd still compare them. The Camry comes with a 4 cylinder, the Maxx with a pretty nice V6 and good mileage. The Camry doesn't offer a wagon, so they're missing out. Compare it to the Mazda6, and it's still a good deal, as it offers a larger car with standard V6, although not as sprightly as the 6.

Quote, originally posted by bgluckman »

I'm all for more competition, believe me. Don't think that I believe everything Hyundai and Kia are doing is positive--I don't. But I think they're closer to the right path than GM is right now.


What are they missing that the Koreans aren't?
Chris
 
#17 ·
Re: GM's current lineup, and my perspective on it. (Nomolag)

Quote, originally posted by Nomolag »
Ah, but I wouldn't pay sticker price for a Camry either. And if their prices were the same, I'd still compare them. The Camry comes with a 4 cylinder, the Maxx with a pretty nice V6 and good mileage. The Camry doesn't offer a wagon, so they're missing out. Compare it to the Mazda6, and it's still a good deal, as it offers a larger car with standard V6, although not as sprightly as the 6.

Of course, the Camry is at the end of its lifecycle, where as the Malibu is just entering its second year. The 6 is a better comparison, and there is falters. Yes, the 6 has slightly less room and does without that cool rear seat, but the Malibu has a significantly less refined drivetrain, and, oh, comparably-equipped, it costs more.
Quote, originally posted by Nomolag »
What are they missing that the Koreans aren't?

I don't have to make excuses for the new Sonata, a car that represents the future of Hyundai and Kia, being as it'll underpin two sedans, a coupe, two minivans, and a few SUVs. I can't say the same thing about the new G6.
 
#18 ·
Re: (MKII-Diesel-Jetta)

Quote, originally posted by MKII-Diesel-Jetta »
I really don't mind their lineup that much

Actually, to elaborate more - some of their cars actually INTEREST me
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I am liking their lineup, same with Ford and Dodge.
More things I like in lineup, better choices in future! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
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#19 ·
Re: (Big M)

Quote, originally posted by Big M »
Ford, I don't see a big jump for them.

are you kidding?! well, actually, Ford has always been doing great. so maybe not a BIG jump. but their on a roll! with the new Mustang, the Ford GT, their new F-series line-up, the Ford 500, and the SVT Focus! not to mention the possible Shelby Cobra from Ford!
yeah, all three big manufactors are doing just fine! i think GM needs to make more of their cars "exciting"!
 
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