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New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (5th Gear review)

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rtmeikle

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
According to this thread on the CL (I haven't downloaded the video yet) the new GTI ran a lap only .5 seconds slower than the R did!
What improvements made to the new chassis yielded such an improvement? I don't know much about the MKV, but if the base GTI is so fast, I can't wait to see what the eventual R32/R36 version can do!
Any comments?
Rob


Modified by rtmeikle at 9:19 AM 12-10-2004
 
#2 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (rtmeikle)

A half second could be very close, or it could be an eternity depending on the track, conditions, the driver, etc. Just arbitrarily saying it's within a half second of an R really doesn't mean much.
 
#3 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (rtmeikle)

The new GTI only has about 20 ft/lb or torque less than the R, and all new Golfs have a standard independant rear suspension, not the torsion-beam like the GolfIV's.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (Mr. Tarmac)

Quote, originally posted by Mr. Tarmac »
A half second could be very close, or it could be an eternity depending on the track, conditions, the driver, etc. Just arbitrarily saying it's within a half second of an R really doesn't mean much.

In this case, to clarify, it's very close.
ROB
 
#6 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (GRMNMSL)

Quote, originally posted by GRMNMSL »
The new GTI only has about 20 ft/lb or torque less than the R, and all new Golfs have a standard independant rear suspension, not the torsion-beam like the GolfIV's.

i thought the R32 had independent rear suspension just like Audi TT. i could be wrong though, i don't have an R32.
 
#7 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (VRSung)

Quote, originally posted by VRSung »

i thought the R32 had independent rear suspension just like Audi TT. i could be wrong though, i don't have an R32.

It does. All other MKIV's have a torsion beam semi independent rear.
 
#8 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (VRSung)

Quote, originally posted by VRSung »

i thought the R32 had independent rear suspension just like Audi TT. i could be wrong though, i don't have an R32.

You are correct, sir.
Who knows... the GTI is probably lighter than the R32, and the IRS helps a lot. Power output is decent, too.
Now... spread that 0.5s/lap advantage for the R32 over several laps and see what happens. Big difference.
 
#9 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (Max Rebo)

Quote, originally posted by Max Rebo »
Now... spread that 0.5s/lap advantage for the R32 over several laps and see what happens. Big difference.

Exactly. Anyone who runs Solo II knows that a half second on a 45 second course is a TON of time.
Not to down play the new GTI. I'm sure it's very nice. But you have to realize that this test was done by a very talented professional driver. In the real world, in the hands of an average driver, the difference in performance may be a lot more or a lot less. I don't know. My point is that one test on one track on one day by a pro driver isn't necessarily an indication of how similar the speeds will be on the open road. Or how much of that speed is usable by mortal drivers. Throw in a dusty road, a wet road, a non pro driver, and perhaps the AWD R becomes MUCH faster. Who knows.
 
#10 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (VRSung)

it does. Figure this.
I think about it this way. The MK4 was model VWs entrance into MODERN car making. I think the it was a HUGE step up from the MK3. Money poured into developing the MK4 was great, but it did not have focus and esp. did not have sporty characteristics in mind.
Now with the MKV, it has better and more refined manufacturing techniques, and more importantly, FOCUS. Money was spent to make the GTI a real GTI, Jetta more focused on comfort and lux, etc. I think the new Gen VWs will be really nice. At the same time they will still have some issues as every generation has had, but thats what makes it a VW...
rant over
 
#11 ·
Just saw the new GTI at the dealership.
And i must say i don't really like it. don't know why, is't just.. The seats were ok. but the instruments in the dash looked kind of strange.
Very hard the read the speedometer.
 
#12 ·
Re: (R32-NL)

Quote, originally posted by R32-NL »
Just saw the new GTI at the dealership.
And i must say i don't really like it. don't know why, is't just.. The seats were ok. but the instruments in the dash looked kind of strange.
Very hard the read the speedometer.

GTI or golf?
do'h
your in the Netherlands!
Image
 
#13 ·
Re: (R32-NL)

Quote, originally posted by R32-NL »
Just saw the new GTI at the dealership.
And i must say i don't really like it. don't know why, is't just.. The seats were ok. but the instruments in the dash looked kind of strange.
Very hard the read the speedometer.

I could be wrong, but I didnt think the V's were going to hit US dealerships until late 2005 (Aug?)
Edit: Forget what I said above.
 
#14 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (Mr. Tarmac)

Quote, originally posted by Mr. Tarmac »

Exactly. Anyone who runs Solo II knows that a half second on a 45 second course is a TON of time.

The Top Gear lap is about 1min 33 sec. So, on 45 sec course the difference between the R32 and GTI would be around 0.2-0.3 sec - depending on the course layout.
 
#15 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (rtmeikle)

The R under steers bad in stock form. I bet with a larger rear ASB it would stomp the MKV. Does the MKV have a limited slip differential? It doesn't really matter because the current MKIV GTI 1.8T is a strong performer. A MKIV with some mods (springs struts and rear ASB) can equal or out do an R32.
 
#17 ·
Re: New GTI only .5 second slower than .:R on track? (rtmeikle)

Not really an issue for me. The single biggest motivator for the R for me was the AWD. It is the perfect winter sports car.
Drop the weight associated with the AWD and some of the other luxury features, and I would wager that time gap would widen. But I don't care about half a second, I care about comfort and fun and safety in the arctic tundra that is Ithaca.
-E
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Re: (Mr. Tarmac)

Quote, originally posted by Mr. Tarmac »
Yeah, the bottom line is I just don't care.

I'm not downplaying our cars, I LOVE my R, but I have to admit I was a little surprised to hear that the new GTI is so close!
I think it's a positive thing. Hopefully VW is getting the message that we are sick of overly soft suspensions and are ready for something more sporty.
I asked my wife yesterday about her opinion on the R's suspension- is it too stiff? She said that while it is harsher than her Passat, it wasn't uncomfortable to her. I really can't believe that the average GTI buyer would think that suspension more like the R would be too stiff. Who really likes the floaty feeling suspension? I think most of us would agree we want a more aggressive suspension! The R's suspension should've been standard on all GTIs and the Jetta GLI.
Anyway, it seems like VW is finally heading in the right direction.
 
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