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Re: (uk_nick)

Quote, originally posted by uk_nick »
How easy is it to take out:
1) the rear seats
2) the trim panels around the rear wheel arches inside the boot/trunk
in a 5 seater model ? Is there a post covering this already ?

I don't think it would be too difficult to remove the rear seat back and rear seat bench. One of our forum members (Whealy) did this already, to defeat the weight-sensor switch that operates the headrest (his child was right at the weight threshold, and the headrest kept going up and down...). The post discussing that can be found here: Automatic Movement of Rear Seat Headrest.
Removing the trim panel that comprises the rear door threshold and then runs about 2/3 of the way up the side of the rear seat backrest, (referred to as the 'wheel house trim') should not be too difficult, although removal of the upper 1/3 - the piece into which the seat belt disappears into, referred to as the 'Lower C-pillar trim' - would be very difficult and likely require partial removal of the headliner. To remove the wheel house trim, you first need to remove the rear seat cushion (base) and backrest.
Best to get printed directions explaining how to take these parts apart from your VW dealer. Seat cushion removal is in section 72 of the maintenance manual, and wheel house trim removal is in section 70. Normally, the VW dealers are quite happy to print out this information for owners, as long as it does not run to 50 pages. The information you need is about 10 pages total. If you can't get it from your VW dealer, let me know and I will get it for you.
Below is a picture of a Phaeton body prior to installation of all the above-mentioned parts... this might give you an idea of what you will find once you get things taken apart. As you can see, there is not much excess space between the metal body of the car (the wheel arch) and the inner surface of the wheel house trim.
Michael
Rear wheel house, before installation of seats or trim
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Re: Additional road noise suppression (uk_nick)

By the way, my car is in the dealership today for an oil change, which requires removal of the front right wheel well liner if the Phaeton has a W12 engine (the wheel well liner must be removed to get access to the oil filter).
So, tomorrow I will visit the dealership and take a whole bunch of pictures of what is behind the front wheel well liner, and what the liner itself looks like.
Michael
 
Re: (uk_nick)

Quote, originally posted by uk_nick »

Spectral,
Cheers for the quietcoat link. I hadn't seen that one, but I've looked into other brands of liquid visco-elastomer type damping materials.
IIRC materials like quietcoat and solid equivalents like Dynamat Extreme are good at killing low frequency resonance/noise (and that's why bass junkies line their doors and trunk with it) whereas foam and rubber type mats are good at absorbing higher frequency noise. I'm minded to use both if possible. You seem to know your stuff on sound engineering: have I got this right ?
Modified by uk_nick at 12:38 AM 9-27-2006

I'm not 100% sure on the different sound absorbtion qualities of various materials, but I'm sure that the manufacturers can give you a graph that shows absorbtion plotted against frequency.
I believe that the visco elastic will provide you with the best overall absorbtion with the least amount of mass.
I think that your approach to using layers of materials that compliment each other is a good one for eliminating a wide range of frequencies.
 
Re: Quiet car (PanEuropean)

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Don't do this to the exposed surfaces of the rear wheel wells of a Phaeton - they are carpeted on the side that is closest to the wheel, this is a noise reduction feature. I suspect that if the carpeting was covered over, noise would increase, not decrease.
Michael

Good point.
I think spraying your wheel well with visco elastic also might make it difficult to remove the wheel well liner.
 
Re: (uk_nick)

Quote, originally posted by uk_nick »
A useful link for the Yokohama tyres:
http://www.yokohamatire.com/Ti...eID=8#
By their own figures it only offers a 1 dB reduction against typical opposition, though.

One decibel quieter is not much. I doubt anyone could tell the difference in real world driving conditions. The other tires that they compare against are also known for their quiet qualities.
Sort of a bad marketing move for Yokohama from my perspective, but I'm sure many buyers look at those bar graphs and say "the Yokohamas are the quietest" and then buy them. I look at it and say "there are two other tires on the market that are just as quiet as the Yokos...maybe I should buy them instead."
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Re: Quiet car (Spectral)

Although I don't have an opinion about spraying wheel well liners with sound absorbing materials (I have not done any research on it), one option might be to take the wheel well liner out of the car - a very quick and easy job, 5 minutes at most (not counting removing the wheel), spray it away from the car, let the stuff dry, then re-install it.
Michael
 
Re: Additional road noise suppression (uk_nick)

Nick:
Here are the pictures of the wheel wells that I promised you.
It is very easy to take the liner out of a wheel well - about 4 minutes labour, tops, and about 15 fasteners (all the same size) for each wheel well. So, if you are thinking of adding insulation, you might want to give some thought to adding it on the 'outside' surface of the body of the car, between the wheel well liner and the car body itself, rather than trying to do all the work that would be involved with dis-assembly of the interior components such as seats, carpets, and so forth.
Be cautious not to block the antenna for the Tire Pressure Monitoring System. You can see the antenna in the third picture down - it is the thin, vertical, sort of serrated looking thing (about the size of a nail file) that is at the 10 o'clock position, close to the outer edge of the wheel well.
Michael
Rear Wheel Well - liner in place
Image

Front Left Wheel Well - liner in place
Image

Wheel Well - liner has been removed
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Front Right Wheel Well Liner
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Discussion starter · #28 ·
Michael,
Many thanks for these. I'll have a look on my own car some time over the weekend and see what can be done. Looks promising.
Like quite a few UK owners I don't have the TPMS, but I think the warning will still be useful for owners who do.
 
Re: (uk_nick)

Hi Nick
I'm following this one very closely too. keep me up to date with your developments.
I have had a look at putting insulation under the rear bench.Michael is right not a lot of room for improvement, could get some in but unless using a very high quality insulation that's not too thick I am not sure it would make a vast difference. ( you might prove me wrong)
I have asked my dealership to order the insulated liners. let you know if they can get them, thought i would try these 1st then move on from there.
Peter
 
Re: (uk_nick)

Hi Nick
Seems like you have saved me the trouble as I was going to take it out over the weekend. I did have quick look underneath, but did not actually pull it right out. I think though you have to lift up the rear of the seat to locate it in the u type brackets. It does look tricky, that's why i was leaving it to the weekend.
Did you manage to get and sound proofing in? If you did it may be causing the re locating problem.
Peter
 
Re: (uk_nick)

Hi Nick
I have just ordered the wheel liner sound proofing mats from my VW dealer. he is e mailing me a picture to check them , if they are the correct ones I will post their part number and price on this thread.
Peter
 
Re: (uk_nick)

Hi again
I have just spoken to my VW tech, and he said if I get them he will fit them for me, however he reckons I shold not get my hopes to high, said they do work to a degree, but it depends on what I am expecting from them. I said silence! he said OH!
I'll keep you posted
peter
 
Re: (uk_nick)

Nick:
Attached is the installation instructions for the rear seat bench, printed from the VW Phaeton repair manual. Perhaps you are just not using the correct technique to install the seat base. Hope this helps.
Michael
 

Attachments

Re: (palladino)

Quote, originally posted by palladino »
I have just ordered the wheel liner sound proofing mats from my VW dealer...

Peter:
Are the insulating mats for the wheel well liners available as a stand-alone part? I thought you needed to order the complete assembly (wheel well liner with sound-absorbing mats installed - for V10 TDI).
Be aware that your existing wheel well liners may not have the pins on them that are needed to retain the sound absorbing material in place.
Lastly - let me check with the engineering folks in Dresden to see if there is any reason (e.g. heat dissipation, etc.) why we should NOT retrofit the V10 TDI wheel well liners to other model Phaetons. The factory has always been pretty good about checking out these kind of questions for us ahead of time. Normally it takes about a week to get a response, because the question gets forwarded to engineering in Wolfsburg.
Michael
 
Re: (uk_nick)

Hi Guys
Just in case anybody else want's to put the wheel liner sound absorbsion pads in, the part numbers you need are
3DO 864 237B and 3DO 864 239A.
Don't know if these numbers just relate to uk cars

Peter
 
Re: Additional road noise suppression (uk_nick)

I am slightly puzzled by you guys wanting to put additional soundproofing in. Does this mean the V6 have less soundprooing because In my V10 I don't think it needs it. do you guys have double glazed windows? AS far as I can see there seems to on the V10 perfectly adequate noise suppression.
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Re: Additional road noise suppression (pilgrim7777)

Hi Pilgrim
I am not sure about the double glazing, I'll ask at my dealership, but the cars do come with different level of sound insulation. My dealer e mail me a picture of the full V6 W10 and W12 insulation list. I am not very good at posting pictures so I am e mailing it to Michael, hopefully he will post it here for all to see
Peter
 
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