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Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp vr6?

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nikescream

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp Gti vr6?

Hello,
I am in the process of purchasing a new vr6 and I'm trying to decide between a Green Rave Gti 174hp version and a Black Gti 03 200hp version. I really had my heart set on a Green 200hp model...but I since they don't make them anymore...I don't really have a choice. But I was lucky enough to find a Green 174....so my question is: Will I really notice the difference between the two engines? And I don't have the opportunity to test drive the 174 because it's nearly across the state.
Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
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Nike
[Modified by nikescream, 6:02 PM 7-6-2002]


[Modified by nikescream, 6:39 PM 7-6-2002]
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Re: Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp Gti vr6? (IwannaJettaVR6)

Yeah, I know they made green 200hp 02 ones...but it's impossible to find one. And I think they've stopped producing them at the factory. The 2003's don't come in green.
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I test drove the 200hp jetta...and I really enjoyed the power. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there is a noticeable difference in power in the 174.
Thanks in advance.
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nike


[Modified by nikescream, 1:14 AM 7-7-2002]
 
#4 ·
Re: Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp Gti vr6? (nikescream)

it's not even that magical "30" more horse power that you feel or not. But the new engine is 24V!!!!! and it's a true DOHC, engine combust, breath alot better, alot more tunable than old 12V where one cam control all intake exhaust on one bank, and another cam for the other bank of cylinders.
I would ditch my 12v for a 24v now if there are more tuning products out now on the US market.
 
#5 ·
Re: Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp Gti vr6? (tink856)

technically all the VR6's are DOHC, that didn't change. but he is right in that the 24v pulls much better to redline, unlike the 12v. you're also missing the 6spd & mileage, and the new amazing seats of the new car. not to mention the difference in depreciation. i'd try and open your heart to a new color and enjoy the future of VR6 motoring.
 
#6 ·
Re: Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp Gti vr6? (M this 1!)

I went from a 98 GLX to a 02 GLi and I havent really opened it up yet because Im still breaking it in. But from what I can tell so far is that the 24V is definatly much more powerful and linear then the 12V. Its as simple as this would you rather have owned a old 8V or the 16V on the A2's. That question answers itself.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Re: Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp Gti vr6? (15DEGMKIII)

Thanks to everyone for their input.
I've decided to get the 03 24v. I'd rather have a better performing engine....Color of the car is important...but not critical.
Anyways, I'm just happy that I'm getting a new car.
Nike
 
#8 ·
Re: Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp Gti vr6? (nikescream)

I might be able to shed some light on this.My brother has a 95(mk3) gti vr6 with a 5 spd. Mods are chip and intake. I have a 02 jetta glx with tiptronic. With his mods, lighter weight(being a mk3 gti) and 5 spd, his car feels about as fast as my heavier tiptronic stock 24v. Havn't lined the cars up yet, but I have driven both extensively. My engine feels a lot smoother, and seems to pull harder higher rpms than his. Both vr6's are great engines, but like the guys said you might as well go for the newer more powerful engine. Hope this helps.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Re: Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp Gti vr6? (eldealero)

Nevermind...After searching everywhere I was able to find a 24v Rave Green on Black.
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None of my local dealers were able to find me one...And I pretty much had given up....but I found one over 3000miles away in NYC, NY. It only has 40 miles on it and it'll be here in about two weeks.
I'm super excited...This is my first VW.
Nike
 
#10 ·
Re: Feel the difference between 174 and 200hp Gti vr6? (nikescream)

FWIW, I test drove a 24V GLI and it felt about as strong as my cammed/chipped 12V GTI ... I am sure a lighter GTI with the 24V should feel even better.
Awesome transmission http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
#11 ·
24v vs 12v

quote:[HR][/HR]technically all the VR6's are DOHC, that didn't change. but he is right in that the 24v pulls much better to redline, unlike the 12v. you're also missing the 6spd & mileage, and the new amazing seats of the new car. not to mention the difference in depreciation. i'd try and open your heart to a new color and enjoy the future of VR6 motoring. [HR][/HR]​
The VR6 DOHC inscribed on MkIII VR6s is the most blatant baloney VW has have stamped on their cars. The 12v is SOHC; it has 1 cam per bank of cylinders and each of the cam operates both the intake and exhaust valves on that bank, that makes it SOHC period.
The 24v is a much better engine; more power, more torque everywhere, quieter and more efficient too. It is mated to a much better transmission (if you get a 6-spd). The O2J is just about the worst shifting gearbox made by anyone anywhere, the MQ350 (aka O2M) is above average which makes it much better.
That said, it all comes down to price. If the dealer is selling a 12v below cost for $18K I'll say consider it because it really ain't that bad. Else forget it. Personally, I only buy Silver cars with grey or beigh interiors if its available, but if its not I am not hard up about it.
Piece of advice when buying a new car, any car: Never fall in love with a car, fall in love only with the deal. Never pay mark up, never pay more than $300 over invoice, never think that you have to buy a car that day, that week or ever. If can't do that you shouldn't be shopping.
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#13 ·
Re: 24v vs 12v (Fusker)

I am probably one of the few that got my GLI for invoice. I agree, finding a 2003 GLI or GTI at $300 over invoice will be difficult. Nothing wrong with trying, who knows...
The 24v GLI is also my first VW and loving it.
 
#14 ·
Re: 24v vs 12v (DwightLooi)

quote:[HR][/HR]technically all the VR6's are DOHC, that didn't change. but he is right in that the 24v pulls much better to redline, unlike the 12v. you're also missing the 6spd & mileage, and the new amazing seats of the new car. not to mention the difference in depreciation. i'd try and open your heart to a new color and enjoy the future of VR6 motoring.
The VR6 DOHC inscribed on MkIII VR6s is the most blatant baloney VW has have stamped on their cars. The 12v is SOHC; it has 1 cam per bank of cylinders and each of the cam operates both the intake and exhaust valves on that bank, that makes it SOHC period.
[HR][/HR]​
That is so true. Although the banks are 15 degrees physically, the timing is offset at 120 degrees and each CAM feeds only 3 cylinders, making it OPERATIONALLY a SOHC. Not to mention, the 12v does not have variable cam lift right through the rev range and hence the tapering off of max. power quite sharply after a fairly low peak power range. Wheras the 24v has a very flat torque curve and the power remains quite high all the way to electronic redline.
Nice 1 DL
quote:[HR][/HR]Engine, electrical connection
Kind engine/installation position 6-Zyl.-V6-Ottomotor/in front crosswise

Material cylinder head/engine mount Aluminum alloy/grey cast iron

Drilling/stroke [ mm ] 81,0 / 90,3

Capacity effectively [ cm³ ] 2.792

Valves per cylinder/drive 2, parallel/indirectly, role rocker fingers

Amount of the cam shaft/situation/drive 2// by chain

Crank disalignment in degrees 120

Number of crankshaft bearings 7

Compression [:1 ] 10,75

Mixture preparation indirect electronic single injection

Loading type/pressure - / -

Ignition system electronic ignition without distributors

Emission control Three-way catalyst, Lambda regulation

Achievement [ KW (of HP) with 1/min ] 150 (204) / 6.200

max. Torque [ Nm with 1/min ] 270/3.200

Generator [ A]/Batterie [ A](Ah) 70 / 280 (60)

[HR][/HR]​


[Modified by prana, 2:12 PM 8-2-2002]
 
#15 ·
Re: 24v vs 12v (daveduncan)

quote:[HR][/HR]I am probably one of the few that got my GLI for invoice. I agree, finding a 2003 GLI or GTI at $300 over invoice will be difficult. Nothing wrong with trying, who knows...
The 24v GLI is also my first VW and loving it.[HR][/HR]​
Try to get an 2002.5, at year end clearance for invoice. If not, don't buy the car. At some point, for some reason, some dealer somewhere will sell one at just above invoice if not less. Buy it then. If it means you have to wait 6 months or a year, then so be it. Dealers are bad enough bloodsuckers, we should try to complicate their lives a little more.
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#17 ·
Re: 24v vs 12v (prana)

quote:[HR][/HR]
That is so true. Although the banks are 15 degrees physically, the timing is offset at 120 degrees and each CAM feeds only 3 cylinders, making it OPERATIONALLY a SOHC. Not to mention, the 12v does not have variable cam lift right through the rev range and hence the tapering off of max. power quite sharply after a fairly low peak power range. Wheras the 24v has a very flat torque curve and the power remains quite high all the way to electronic redline.
[HR][/HR]​
Actually, the 12v does not have variable cam lift, neither does the 24v. The 24v employs variable phasing which changes the timing of the camshaft continuously. Valve lift doesn't and cam profile doesn't change. To change valve lift is much more involved. Basically, you can have a cam lobe switching system (eg, VTEC, VVTL-i) which allows selection between too sets of cam profiles altogether, or an eccentrically movable rocker arm fulcrum (Valvetronic) which changes valve lift amplification only.
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[Modified by DwightLooi, 10:12 PM 8-1-2002]
 
#18 ·
Re: 24v vs 12v (DwightLooi)

well hopefully your life is alittle more meaningful than to spend 6mths to mess with a dealer. a car dealership is a business like any other, just on the worst percentage. a brand new jetta/gti etc has about 7% profit built into it. what other product out there has that low of a profit margin? i for one would not be inclined to be without a car that i wanted for 6 or so months so i could save a couple hundred more bucks. lifes too short to be that much of a mooch. i'm not saying people shouldn't get or work for a good deal, but why do you get so surprised when you get no respect from the dealer. 'cause you don't deserve it. you know how hard it is to make $100 dollars a car for the salesman? do you know how many hours a month it takes to sell 20 cars? do you know how damn poor they'd all be if everyone paid nothing for their cars? why do you think so many of them dress like crap and drive crap cars? you tip your waiter when he's good, right. you want him to get paid for a job done right. why shouldn't the salesman? why do people feel so jaded when a salesman makes fair money on a car? you get paid for your job, why shouldn't he?
 
#19 ·
NOTE: OFF TOPIC... but I feel I need to respond

I am a believer that the substance, quality and value of products should sell products. Sales pitches are an annoying practice and a waste of my time and attention. The current business model poses a problem. Dealers carry inventory which they must try to sell. They have notable overheads to pay. They try to make every customer pay more than they should to make money. Frequently they will try to sell someone something he or she may not desire simply because its packaged with a car he has to move. I believe, and hope, that the current distribution model for automobiles will be laid to rest.
Instead of a dealership being an employer of sales persons, carrier of inventory and generally a high overhead entity trying and needing to try and squeeze the consumer for every buck they can yield, it should be a boutique of sorts. The car dealer should carry no inventory. It'll have a number of sample cars for test drives, a host of mock up interiors to off various trims and options. But basically, there is less than 10 complete cars. Anyone can walk in to get information on a car, get a test drive, ask questions and be treated well. The customer is encouraged to compare the product with the competition. No one ever asks that you buy, much less when or what to get. The price is fixed nationwide and is non negiotiable. If you do decide to buy a car, the representatives will help you configure it to the best of your interest. An order is then placed for just in time production and you receive the car in about 3 weeks. I think Saturn is a step in the right direction, but I think it should go further.
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#20 ·
Re: NOTE: OFF TOPIC... but I feel I need to respond (DwightLooi)

We are way off topic, but inventory is not going to go away, for one good reason: Used Cars. Manufacturers are realizing that used cars are a good, cheap way to get people into the brand, and are a good source of potential new car buyers down the road. Hence most manufacturers (VW being a notable exception) are now offering certified used vehicle programs.
 
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