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Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans

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Rotorhedd

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hey, a few questions, since I might be at this point by tomorrow. Where can I find instructions for removing and replacing individual solenoids in the valve body? The Bentley book doesn't seem to go that deep into it (huge disappointment), or if it does, I haven't been able to find it in the cd yet.
Second, is it possible to change solenoids with the valve body in place or do I have to drop it? Anyone who's changed them before: how hard is it? Is it just a pop-out, pop-in thing?
Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (Rotorhedd)

Im not sure if I've dealt with that particular trans before, but changing a solenoid on most VW transmissions is very simple. The biggest thing to be aware of is the flat plastic circuitry they use instead of wires inside those things. When removing the solenoid connectors you've got to be extremely careful not to damage them. Once the connector(s) is off, the solenoid will be held in place by either a clip, or a bolt/braket. Sometimes they even just pop out with a little bit of force (and I mean a LITTLE bit). The other thing to keep in mind is that sometimes there will be springs that could come out with the solenoid, so pull it out slowly and keep a close eye for anything that might fly out of there accidently. If it sounds tough, it really isnt. Not to insult your intelligence, but do you know which solenoid you are going to change and whats your reason for changing it if you dont mind me asking?
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (stratocaster)

Well, the code it's throwing is P2716, which is "faulty pressure regulation valve in the valve body" or "pressure control solenoid 'D' electrical" depending on which code list you look at. The trans is in limp mode, and goes only in 4th or reverse. (According to CoolVDub's excellent post on the Solenoid Location and Function in the 09A, failure of the N282 solenoid in that trans causes exactly this, so I'm guessing it's probably a similar condition, although I haven't found anything yet to say 'a failure of solenoid XX causes this.') In the 01V, there are six solenoids all in a row at the rear end of the valve body, and according to the Bentley manual they are, from left to right, lying on your back looking up with feet pointing forward:
N90 - solenoid valve 3
N89 - solenoid valve
N217 - pressure regulating valve 3
N218 - pressure regulating valve 4
N216 - pressure regulating valve 2
N88 - solenoid valve 1
I located the electrical test tables, and this morning I'm going to bust out the multi-meter and start running through the tests. If I can find one solenoid that shows the wrong values and everything else is fine, I'm going to log onto erWin and pay by the hour to try and find the information on the function of each solenoid, like CoolVDub posted, only for my trans. If the one that checks bad is consistent with the car's condition, that'll be my candidate for replacement.
If everything checks out fine electrically, I'll have to assume the TCM - which got wet - fried itself, but it seems there would be more codes if that were the case. Anyway, I didn't find any on ebay and they seem to run about $1100 new, so it's worth my time to rule everything else out first.
I assume the solenoids are keyed or something so they'd only go in one way, if I end up replacing. Once they're all in and hooked up, can I reset the code and check it before I reinstall the pan and refill the trans? I guess just the resistance check - probably not a good idea to start the engine with no fluid in the trans, even for long enough to reset the code, even though the car will be on ramps and stands all around with the drive wheels off the ground, so essentially no load on the trans.
Anyway, that's my thought process. Can you see anywhere I'm going astray?
Most importantly, once I know which solenoid it is (IF it is), where's a good place to get one without going through the stealership?
Thanks!
Randy
 
#4 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (Rotorhedd)

Looks like you're definitely headed in the right direction with your diagnostic process. You did all the research you needed to and followed the steps in the right order.
As far as the TCM goes, its still possible that its fried even though its not throwing more codes. Once any one solenoid screws up and kicks the trans in to limp mode, the TCM is no longer trying to actuate the shift solenoids, TCC solenoid, etc. like it normally is, thus the reason no more codes are thrown. The one thing that makes me think it may be alright is that you havent seen a code for TCM communication fault--something you should normally see if there was no signal coming out of it.
Anyways, from what you've told me I think theres a good chance solenoid D is the only culprit. As for the solenoids being keyed, the shift solenoids are typically all the same part number, and can be interchanged without affecting anything. This usually makes it easy to at least be able to tell which solenoids are the shift solenoids and which are the others (EPC, TCC, etc.). Apart from the shift solenoids, you cant always identify the others without a book or diagram. The EPC (pressure control) generally has a screw on the back of it that can be turned to adjust main line pressure.
The resistance check is pretty much all you can do to check the new solenoid beforehand, and yes, starting the engine without any fluid in the trans would not be good, but you shouldnt have to start the engine to clear the codes. As long as the ignition is on you should be able to clear them with any OBDII scanner, even a cheap one.
Being a trans mechanic myself, I wish I could suggest a good place to buy a new solenoid, but I only know of one place besides the dealership and its here in UT where I live. Its a place called Central Valley something or other, and they only have that one location. They're our main supplier for all our trans parts. Also, from what I understand, if you go through the crooks at the dealership you have to buy the entire solenoid block--they wont sell them individually....
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Dont quote me on that though, its been a long time since i had to buy a solenoid for a VW. You can check around online, but im not sure you will have much luck.
Anyways, good luck and keep me updated http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (stratocaster)

Well, I made a little progress, but I have Bentley issues. I ran the only transmission electrical test, for solenoids N88-N94 and found two (N-92 and N-94) with resistance values slightly below the specified range: 5.9 and 5.7 ohms, respectively, rather than 6-8. Problem is, according to my trans code EZS, my solenoids are numbered differently, N-88, 89, 90 and N-215, 216, 217, and 218 (the 3-digit ones are the press reg valves, one of which is causing my code).
So, putting aside for a moment the issue of whether I can get the individual solenoids (
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), I need to figure out what the relationship is. I think the next thing is to drain and drop the pan and test the solenoids individually. I'm glad the one on top of the valve body isn't the one out of limits - maybe I can still get away without having to remove the valve body. Is there anything else I should do before I go ahead and open it up?
Oh, and I pulled the carpet up on that side, and after mopping and vacuuming out as much water as I could, I've been running a household dehumidifier inside the closed car for a few days, and the carpet's mostly dry now, even though my 5 year old daughter says it still smells like 'monkey butt'
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#6 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (Rotorhedd)

If the problem started around the same time the TCM got wet then I'd not bother with swapping out the solenoids. Chances are you'll be fine when the TCM dries out or when you swap in a good one. I sure wouldn't want to start increasing the number of variables in the equation yet.
 
#7 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (Variety=Spice)

^What he said. It was late last night and I was pretty much sleep typing, kind of like now...lol. For some reason I didnt put two and two together and just kind of assumed the whole TCM thing happened after the trans issues started up, I have no idea why.
Anyhow, if the TCM got wet enough that it caused your current problems, I would be surprised as hell if its anything but a paperweight even after it dries. I guess there is a small possibility, but with hard water deposits all over in there you would most definitely have problems down the road and probably have to replace it anyways.
Just out of curiousity, what kind/brand of scanner are you using, and does it have any kind of transmission data menu? I know your average low cost OBDII scanners wont have it, but if yours does you should be able to see the TCM commanding the solenoids off and on. If you dont have that kind of info to look at, youre best off to keep on with your original plan of dropping the pan & testing each solenoid. That is the best way to know for sure which end your problem is coming from. I know you said two of them were slightly below spec, but I dont think its far enough off to put the trans in limp mode.
If all of your solenoids test ok, then your next step would be to test for continuity in the wiring between TCM and transmission. Its a pain in the ass I know, but a necessary evil. If continuity is good then I think you are good to call it a TCM issue and replace it. Before you do though, I would suggest you make absolute certain that there are no new or undiscovered DTCs stored that could point to something else as the culprit.
Finally, if everything checks out ok (TCM, wiring, solenoids), then I would come back to the two questionable shift solenoids. I'm not sure about this trans, but usually all of the shift solenoids are the same part number like I said before, and can be swapped. An easy, but slightly time consuming way to see if theyre working or not would be to mark them and then swap them with other shift solenoids to see if the problem occurs in different gears when you put it all back together and test it.
As for your prob with the bentley, I wish I were more familiar with them, but I've always had other means to obtain the info I need at work. Just to make sure I have it straight, the info you researched says the solenoids are labeled one way, and the bentley says another way right? And do both sources list your same trans model/code as the trans that the diagram came from?...........wow my wrist hurts


Modified by stratocaster at 5:12 AM 7-17-2009
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (stratocaster)

Yeah, the Bentley manual describes valve bodies with two different types of hydraulic control, E 17 and E 18/2. The diagrams look pretty much the same, except that the solenoids are numbered differently. In the E 17 valve body, they're N-88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, and 94. According to a table elsewhere in the manual, my trans code (EZS) corresponds to the type with E-18/2, and on that diagram the solenoids are labeled N-88, 89, 90 (which are only referred to as 'solenoids') and N-215, 216, 216, and 217 (which are referred to as 'pressure regulating valves').
What confuses me is this: the manual only has one transmission electrical check, and it refers to the solenoid numbers for the E-17 control, so it told me that solenoid 5 (N-92) read 5.9 ohms and solenoid 7 (N-94) read 5.7. I can't find a corresponding test table that gives the values for the N-2xx solenoids I supposedly have. But comparing the diagrams, N-92 and N-94 are in the same locations as N-216 and N-218. So I think the plan will be to drain and drop, then test those two solenoids. And if all of those pressure regulating valve solenoids have the same part numbers, I'll try the marking and swapping thing.
The code I have, P-2716, says "faulty pressure regulation valve in valve body" or "pressure control solenoid D electrical." I'm no engineer, but it seems to me if a solenoid had an electrical issue like a wiring harness problem, the resistance would go out of range to the high side (in theory, resistance should increase if a wire frays and become infinite if the wire breaks - but I can't see why a continuity problem would make the resistance go down), and my two that were out of range tested 5.9 and 5.7 ohms, below the range of 6-8. The way I see it, when i did the electrical check and got values that were good (or reasonably close, in the case of the questionable two), I pretty much confirmed continuity, right?
So I guess it's outside to get the car up on ramps and jack-stands, with extra bottle jacks and shoring in place (a little paranoid here - my next door neighbors had a family friend who was crushed under a car he was working on, which presumably was only on a tire jack).
Oh, and I have a lead on a place that supposedly sells the solenoids individually - keeping my fingers crossed. I'll post here if that works out.
Thanks for all your help, all who've replied, and especially Stratocaster. Stay tuned... this car is NOT going to the STEALERSHIP!!!
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (Rotorhedd)

Oh, and my scanner is an ACTRON 'pocketscan' model CP9125, and it doesn't appear to have any transmission modes.
Regarding my code, P2716 "Press. control solenoid "D" electrical" - my manual doesn't call them by those numbers. Is there some numbering or lettering convention that would tell me which one "D" is? Obviously I'm still going to test them all, but that would be one more piece of evidence to point to the culprit..
And I looked a few places (besides the stealership) for the TCM, but no luck on ebay yet, and the only new one i found was $1140. If I get no results with the solenoid, I'll dig deeper on that front, junkyards and such, but since I have no TCM codes and never have, I'm going to explore the solenoid route first.
 
#10 ·
You dont know if you got TCM codes or not. Since your scanning with a generic scanner.
You may need a TCM, but certainly since your committed to the idea of checking the solenoids, then I can send you some info on solenoid location and ohms spec, ect. No need to purchase the ErWin.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Re: (CoolAirVw)

That would be fantastic - basically what I want to confirm is: which solenoid -if failed- causes the trans to go only in 4th and reverse. All I've done so far points to N-216, but it could be the TCM of course. The only reason I was so set on solenoids was, in the Solenoid Function / Location thread that CoolVDub posted for the 09A trans, there was one solenoid that (if it failed) caused the trans to do what mine's doing now (4th and R only, limp mode).
I'm also hoping to track down a buddy who has VAG-Com and at least borrow his connector and download the shareware version, but I don't know if that version will test the TCM or not.
It seems to me that the TCM would be the most likely failure, since it got wet, but I haven't found one on eBay or anywhere else, and a new one is $1100, so I'm trying to rule out cheaper things first.
Whatever you could send re: function of each solenoid and failure modes would be great. It's a 0V1 (trans code EZS) and the press regulating valves are N-215, N-216, N-217 and N-218 (I think they're all the same ZF part number, 0501-210-019 and I think the VW part number is 01V-927-331A)
Oh, and I've only found one place so far that would get me the individual solenoid, and it would have to come from LA to them in Seattle, then to me in NJ. But I guess that's the price of resisting the evil empire... but they lost my confidence when I told them what code I had and they said without hesitation they would just replace the whole valve body.
Thanks CoolAirVw! Looking forward to whatever you can send.
Randy
 
#12 ·
Re: (Rotorhedd)

Quote, originally posted by Rotorhedd »
- basically what I want to confirm is: which solenoid -if failed- causes the trans to go only in 4th and reverse.

Almost all solenoids when they trigger a code will cause 4th and reverse. 4th and reverse is not your symptom. Its failsafe. When the computer notices almost any code it goes to failsafe.
You cant diagnose a trans based on that.
Quote, originally posted by Rotorhedd »
- in the Solenoid Function / Location thread that CoolVDub posted for the 09A trans, there was one solenoid that (if it failed) caused the trans to do what mine's doing now (4th and R only, limp mode).

Just cuz he had failsafe and you have failsafe dont mean you have the same code. It also doesn't mean you have the same solenoid failing.
Quote, originally posted by Rotorhedd »
- I'm also hoping to track down a buddy who has VAG-Com and at least borrow his connector and download the shareware version, but I don't know if that version will test the TCM or not.

If your buddy has a official cable it will self activate your software. Just download the vag-com, at your convienence and then install it while the cable is plugged in, then install the USB driver, included in the vag-com download, and you'll have full access. Or find someone from the vag-com list that will help you. Become active in your local VW club and someone there will have vag-com and be willing to help.


Modified by CoolAirVw at 9:33 PM 7-20-2009
 
#13 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (Rotorhedd)

Quote, originally posted by Rotorhedd »
......and my two that were out of range tested 5.9 and 5.7 ohms, below the range of 6-8.

That isn't far enough out of range to trigger a code or cause a problem.
I cant find your code number in any of my tech info. But I did find solenoid "D" cross referenced to solenoid 4 or n215. I noticed your decription above doesn't have n215. I cant seem to figure out if this is the TCC solenoid or the pressure control solenoid.
I would suggest again scanning with vag-com to confirm. Its entirely possible you have other codes and your not getting them, because your scanning generic.
Modified by CoolAirVw at 9:37 PM 7-20-2009

Modified by CoolAirVw at 9:40 PM 7-20-2009


Modified by CoolAirVw at 9:49 PM 7-20-2009
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Re: Changing / swapping solenoids, 01V trans (CoolAirVw)

AHH, the light bulb comes on... I thought each solenoid caused a different fail-safe mode when it failed and that 4th/R was tied to a particular solenoid.
I do have a solenoid n-215 - according to the valve body diagram in the Bentley manual, and they refer to it as "Pressure regulating Valve 1." Of course, it's the one on top of the valve body, so I'd have to drop the valve body to access it (which I haven't done yet).
It definitely sounds like VAG-COM needs to be my next step. Do I need to run the scan with the engine running or while it's driving or anything (i.e., put the pan back on and refill the fluid), or can I leave the trans empty for now in case I do need to change a solenoid?
Do you happen to have a list cross-referencing the ZF part numbers to VW part numbers? When I was talking to a guy at a parts place earlier, he said the numbers I was reading off the solenoids weren't coming up as VW part numbers.
Thanks!
 
#15 ·
VW will only sell the whole valve body with solenoids. If I'm remembering correctly.
The numbers on the solenoids are ZF numbers. You can get them through the aftermarket.
If I were you I'd refill with fluid. Clear codes, redrive and see what codes reoccur. But it wouldn't hurt to start with just a scan to see.


Modified by CoolAirVw at 5:22 AM 7-21-2009
 
#16 ·
Re: (CoolAirVw)

That's the key, and it deserves to be emphasized.
VW dealers won't sell you individual solenoids.
Transmission parts supply houses located in every major city will sell you virtually any part you need for that transmission. Get out your good old fashioned yellow pages and look them up.
 
#17 ·
Re: (Variety=Spice)

I get all my solenoids through a company called Central Valley Automatic Transmission Parts, but I'm not totally sure if they are a national company or if theyre strictly local. Either way, they can be found separately like they said above. Theres no reason the dealer cant sell them that way other then the fact that they're crooks and can't sell something in a manner that might save people money.
Anyways, if you are able to get your hands on that VAG-COM that will definitely help us to pinpoint the problem. Unfortunately generic OBD-II scanners arent much help in these types of situations, and can be confusing at times because not all transmission related DTC's will show up as engine codes also.
Oh yeah, and sorry I havent been around for a week or so, work totally kicked my ass.
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Modified by stratocaster at 1:49 AM 7-25-2009
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Re: (stratocaster)

Thanks - I ordered a connector off eBay (it shipped yesterday, supposedly), and as soon as it arrives I'll download VAGCOM and plug in. In the meantime, in case it turns out to be the TCM, I posted my part number on a used parts request that goes out to junkyards and salvage places, and I got one price back ($350) and a few ads for control module re-building services.
Anyway, I'll be out of town all next week for work, so I won't be able to get any more useful info until the end of the month. But I gotta get this thing fixed, because it's still on ramps and jackstands in my driveway, and I'm getting tired of commuting in my truck with busted a/c... i want my Jetta back!!!
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#19 ·
Ebay connector and free software may not be the best choice.
Lots of features are disabled on the free version.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Re: (CoolAirVw)

Yeah, I know, but it doesn't cost too much to try the free way first. If it doesn't work, then I'll shell out the $99 for the license. Do I need to buy the connector from Ross-tech for it to work?
 
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