Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics?

Vision33r · Feb 19, 2003

I was reading some drag racing tuning and noticed that some discussions about the Viper having a sail for a front facia..
Then I did some research and came up with these numbers for the Drag Coefficient: (Keep in mind, the less drag, the more aero you are.)
0.19: GM EV1
0.28: Lexus LS400, Vauxhaull Vectra
0.29: Audi A4, BMW 850Ci, Mercedes-Benz E420, Lotus Elite ('57-'62)
0.30: BMW 318i, Saab 900, Infiniti Q45, Infiniti G20
0.31: Toyota Supra (base), Mazda MX-6, BMW 328is Coupe
0.32: Toyota Supra (turbo), Volvo 850, Ford Windstar (!)
0.33: Toyota Supra (w/spoiler), Ferrari 550 Maranello, Nissan Sentra
0.33: Subaru Impreza WRX 2001
0.34: Pontiac Firebird Formula WS6, Porsche 928 GTS, Chevrolet Corvette
0.35: Cadillac Deville Concours
0.36: Chrysler LHS
0.37: Mazda Millenia, Ferrari F50
0.38: Ford Mustang Cobra, Mazda Miata (soft top up)
0.39: Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

What I don't understand is.. how the Viper score so low being a Super car...

It's worst than a flat nose Lexus LS400!!

Did dodge fail math or physics?

[Modified by WReXinEFX, 12:32 PM 2-19-2003]

Spaghetti_Part2 · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (WReXinEFX)

SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!! THAT CAR IS PERFECT!!! ok back to being normal. In all honesty, its a 500hp gas guzzling v10, you think have a lower drag coefficient is gonna make that much of a difference for gas efficiency, or speed?

SaabFan · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (WReXinEFX)

quote:[HR][/HR]
Did dodge fail math or physics?[HR][/HR]

I doubt it. The Cd is only a part of the story - you can't say "this car has a better design than that one" just based on the Cd.
I'm speculating here, but I bet the high Cd of the Viper was a tradeoff for other aerodynamic design goals - lots of downforce, cooling duct design, etc are things that you might want as part of a "good" aerodynamic design even though they might raise the Cd.
-Nate

TabulaRasa · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (WReXinEFX)

Low drag is one thing, downforce is another. I bet that the high coefficient of drag is due to high amounts of downforce.
You also have to take into consideration frontal area.

MEIN_VW · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (WReXinEFX)

Wide tires, such as the Viper has, increase the coefficient of drag of a vehicle.

Vision33r · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (SaabFan)

But this has to be a design over-sight or just disregarded because it's a 500HP+ muscle car.
BTW, the Ferrari Enzo's Cd is 0.32 for a 600hp+ exotic car.

[Modified by WReXinEFX, 12:41 PM 2-19-2003]

Obin Robinson · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (WReXinEFX)

quote:[HR][/HR]Did dodge fail math or physics?
[HR][/HR]

no, but you failed to take downforce into account

obin

maskedSONY · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (WReXinEFX)

first it was turbo caravans. now it's vipers.

AKADriver · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (WReXinEFX)

The rear spoiler design of the GTS is great for downforce but bad for drag. Likewise, probably, the front fascia.
The Ferrari F50's Cd is also high, but again, they're trading drag for downforce at speed.
Note that most of the smoothest cars aren't really performance cars, just sports and luxury sedans that seek out low drag to reduce wind noise.

VW-BMW · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (TabulaRasa)

Yep, C. Drag and downforce are inversely proportional. That's why Indy cars (before IRL/CART split) ran faster with the small wings at Indy than say the big wings on a road course. The same holds true for production cars although not to such a high degree.
My 850 has less resistance than an Ferrari F50, but the F50 obviously makes more downforce. Most production cars only have to make enough downforce to cancel out the lift created by difference in pressure from the bottom to the top of the car. High performace cars and race cars make even more downforce for better handling, but they creat more resistance.
Jeez I think I've said the same thing 5 times now.

[Modified by VW-BMW, 5:43 PM 2-19-2003]

Vision33r · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (AKADriver)

quote:[HR][/HR]The rear spoiler design of the GTS is great for downforce but bad for drag. Likewise, probably, the front fascia.
The Ferrari F50's Cd is also high, but again, they're trading drag for downforce at speed.
Note that most of the smoothest cars aren't really performance cars, just sports and luxury sedans that seek out low drag to reduce wind noise.[HR][/HR]

Good explanation.. I think that explains it..

maskedSONY · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (AKADriver)

oh i thought of something:
with a car that has 500 horsepower, 525 ft/lbs of twist and a curb wieght of about 3380lbs, .38 of drag is clearly not going to be an issue unless you are seriously racing that btch. Dodge built that car with nothing but raw power in mind.

theevilshiftkey · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (maskedSONY)

Here's something else to chew on: Total drag is "coefficient of drag X frontal area" (please correct me if that's way wrong). So while the cd might seem bad it can be made up for by being low (counteracted by being fat of course). However it looks like the important things have been said. In order to keep it on the ground it needs some downforce, which causes more drag.

Chris V · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (maskedSONY)

quote:[HR][/HR]oh i thought of something:
with a car that has 500 horsepower, 525 ft/lbs of twist and a curb wieght of about 3380lbs, .38 of drag is clearly not going to be an issue unless you are seriously racing that btch. Dodge built that car with nothing but raw power in mind. [HR][/HR]

And when they went seriously racing, they won anyway.So obviously it didn't matter.

sar4497 · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (Chris V)

I thought the top speed was in the 190s, so who cares.
i remember the cover of motor trend several years ago when a viper did 192 on their test track.

sar4497 · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (sar4497)

it blew a hose during the 192mph run.

Beltfed · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (sar4497)

If anybody is near LI, NY (Suffolk County)....when the weather turns nice, I would be happy to give anyone a ride who wants to feel just how stupid fast a late model Viper is (with mods no less). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

dOpefiSh · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (Beltfed)

quote:[HR][/HR]stupid fast[HR][/HR]

Exactly how I imagine it!

I could swear I read that part of the reason for the 2003 redesign was to improve the car's aerodynamic qualities to better compete with the 'Vette. A laudable goal if only the new design had retained half the old car's physical character (IMO)

FuriousGeorge!! · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (theevilshiftkey)

quote:[HR][/HR]Here's something else to chew on: Total drag is "coefficient of drag X frontal area" (please correct me if that's way wrong). So while the cd might seem bad it can be made up for by being low (counteracted by being fat of course). However it looks like the important things have been said. In order to keep it on the ground it needs some downforce, which causes more drag.[HR][/HR]

Close enough http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .

Beltfed · Feb 19, 2003

Re: Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics? (dOpefiSh)

quote:[HR][/HR]I could swear I read that part of the reason for the 2003 redesign was to improve the car's aerodynamic qualities to better compete with the 'Vette. A laudable goal if only the new design had retained half the old car's physical character (IMO)[HR][/HR]

Exactly, the new Viper is better than the Gen II....but not that much better, not to mention that the styling is (while not bad) not that amazing looking.
I had an 03 on order, had the certificate and all, but cancelled. Gave the dealer the allocation (certificate holders were the only way they could get SRTs), in return he would get me an 04 without issue (yippee).

[Modified by Beltfed, 10:53 AM 2-19-2003]

Is it true the Dodge Viper has really bad aerodynamics?

Vision33r

Spaghetti_Part2

SaabFan

TabulaRasa

MEIN_VW

Vision33r

Obin Robinson

maskedSONY

AKADriver

VW-BMW

Vision33r

maskedSONY

theevilshiftkey

Chris V

sar4497

sar4497

Beltfed

dOpefiSh

FuriousGeorge!!

Beltfed

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities