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WOB-16vT

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So, rumor is that our R's are being delivered detuned. Around 250 hp.
That's 20 hp less that our friends in Europe.

I'm wondering if when we take delivery and when we get a flash will the "flash" take us up to what the hp should be? Or will it flash thr CPU, bring us to 270 and then raise the bar as if the car was originally 270 + a flash, being 300hp or around that.

Kinda hard to explain but I know internally the NA and euro models are the same, so it's really just the CPU flash that's different , robbing us of 20hp
 
Just because they're advertising the engine as being 256HP doesn't mean that's what it produces. This is the same thing that they've done many times in the past (including with the R32, which was advertised as being 10HP less than the same engine as found in the Audi TT 3.2). The Golf R engine is the same as the one in the Audi TTS, but is being advertised as being less powerful so as not to tread to heavily in TTS territory.

This isn't a guarantee that it hasn't been detuned, but really, why would they bother to develop an entirely new set of programming? They just advertise it as being less powerful than it is, and that way it doesn't step on Audi toes.

-Tim
 
The testing also uses different gasoline to reach the HP numbers.

Please search before posting, this has been covered at least 3 times that I have seen.
The OP is I think asking how the lower level of power is achieved, and therefore how the car would respond to ECU flash tuning in terms of total output - I don't think that has been covered before.
 
Just because they're advertising the engine as being 256HP doesn't mean that's what it produces. This is the same thing that they've done many times in the past (including with the R32, which was advertised as being 10HP less than the same engine as found in the Audi TT 3.2). The Golf R engine is the same as the one in the Audi TTS, but is being advertised as being less powerful so as not to tread to heavily in TTS territory.

This isn't a guarantee that it hasn't been detuned, but really, why would they bother to develop an entirely new set of programming? They just advertise it as being less powerful than it is, and that way it doesn't step on Audi toes.

-Tim
Perhaps, but in Australia and other Asian markets where you have hot, humid climates and can't find octane at the gas pumps with as much knock resistance as you can in Europe (99 or even 100 RON is available there, which is roughly equivalent to 95 or 96 AKI, our rating system) the R is stated at 256hp, too. If the car really needs that high octane to produce 270hp, then the concern about it running on lower-grade stuff in tough climates seems legitimate. If that's the case then I doubt VW would just "say" it's 256hp and leave it alone. So, they wouldn't have to tune something especially for us, to follow that to it's conclusion.

And since we DO have some similarly extreme climate zones especially across the southern tier of the country and we don't have that ultra-high octane they do in Europe :(, it wouldn't shock me if they really do give us that 256 hp ECU version, quite apart from any marketing concerns about Audi products.

I guess it would help to know what the minimum and recommended RON numbers are on European Golf Rs are, especially compared to a normal GTI. Secondly, we could ask our Australian R friends
what numbers tuning flashes are generating for the cars in their market. My hunch is, (though I may be missing something), that a re-flash of a 256hp Golf R will bring you to the same level of power that a re-flash of a 270hp car would, so it's all good. This may be a misplaced analogy, but I believe that chip tuning of the old 150hp 1.8T brought a bigger jump in power, but ultimately arrived at about the same level as a chip of a 180hp 1.8T - both around 200-205hp. I don't think it was anything more than ECU tuning that separated those motors, at least in terms of power output - plenty of other minor differences (VVT, etc.) that had to do with other things, like emissions.
:beer:
 
Either way......

It really doesn't matter to me what number they put on it. Bigger turbo, stronger internals is what I am interested in. First stop on day of pick up is an APR flash, so for all intents and purposes I am getting mine with 322hp!!! Then future stage progressions up to APR's biggest kit for that motor! I believe like some others have posted, it is to not knock off the Audi's cars. Plus the car has so many nice little improvements over my 08 R32 that I have to get it! Tchuess......
 
I guess it would help to know what the minimum and recommended RON numbers are on European Golf Rs are, especially compared to a normal GTI.
The EU Golf R is specced as using 95 RON fuel as standard, which is about equivalent to 91 in our AKI numbers, and it makes the 270PS on that fuel.

Secondly, we could ask our Australian R friends what numbers tuning flashes are generating for the cars in their market. My hunch is, (though I may be missing something), that a re-flash of a 256hp Golf R will bring you to the same level of power that a re-flash of a 270hp car would, so it's all good.
I am NOT an expert, but I believe that you are correct there. In Australia, for example, APR quotes their Stg 1 flash as producing +/- 320 HP out of the engine.

-Tim
 
It really doesn't matter to me what number they put on it.
good bang for the buck is mixing 100 unleaded race to bring octane up to euro levels. @ 8-10 $ a gallon it's awesome run straight in weekend toys like tuned fi bike with the ign advance that gets 50 mpg and only does a few hundred miles at one time. While that might be nice in the R with the 100 tune it would be a $150 tank
 
Perhaps, but in Australia and other Asian markets where you have hot, humid climates and can't find octane at the gas pumps with as much knock resistance as you can in Europe (99 or even 100 RON is available there, which is roughly equivalent to 95 or 96 AKI, our rating system) the R is stated at 256hp, too.
In Australia and Asia, is the Audi TTS rated at 256 bhp or 270 bhp? I know that the North American TTS is rated at 270 bhp using USA gas. Since the NA Golf R will use the same engine as the NA TTS, I would be willing to bet the R's "detune" is just marketing.
 
Just because they're advertising the engine as being 256HP doesn't mean that's what it produces. This is the same thing that they've done many times in the past (including with the R32, which was advertised as being 10HP less than the same engine as found in the Audi TT 3.2). The Golf R engine is the same as the one in the Audi TTS, but is being advertised as being less powerful so as not to tread to heavily in TTS territory.

This isn't a guarantee that it hasn't been detuned, but really, why would they bother to develop an entirely new set of programming? They just advertise it as being less powerful than it is, and that way it doesn't step on Audi toes.

-Tim
My idea exactly.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Well its either a marketing "lie" to keep Audi high and mighty, or it really is detuned.

My question is, if it really is detuned, are we reprograming from 250 hp up to a stage one limits or will it erase the 250 detune and start a reflash from the 270 hp original programing, yielding 300+ hp
 
Yes, and what SilverSLC and I are telling you (albeit through some rational speculation) is that after a 'stage 1' re-flash a US Golf R should be putting out the same power as any other market version of the car, with the same re-flash - we believe.
 
Well its either a marketing "lie" to keep Audi high and mighty, or it really is detuned.

My question is, if it really is detuned, are we reprograming from 250 hp up to a stage one limits or will it erase the 250 detune and start a reflash from the 270 hp original programing, yielding 300+ hp
Right now, that question can not be answered, as previously discussed. First, VWoA has only said "approx 256hp" for our Golf R. Some sources have said 260hp. No one has said 250hp that I have seen.

But, there just are no final specs at this time, none. And there are no US spec Golf R's in existence anywhere in the world at this time. So, since the final tune specs and/or a final US spec car do not exist, there is no tuner that has had their hands on a car to be able to say what the actual power figures are stock, and whether it is a real detune from Euro specs, or just on paper due to internal politics, and then what their 'chip' tune will do to the car. So this is just a question that can not be answered by anyone, anywhere, at this time. Anything else is just guessing, but I would guess the same as above, that we will be at equal power at Stage 1 as a Stage 1 Euro car.

We just have to wait.......:popcorn:
 
So, rumor is that our R's are being delivered detuned. Around 250 hp.
That's 20 hp less that our friends in Europe.

I'm wondering if when we take delivery and when we get a flash will the "flash" take us up to what the hp should be? Or will it flash thr CPU, bring us to 270 and then raise the bar as if the car was originally 270 + a flash, being 300hp or around that.

Kinda hard to explain but I know internally the NA and euro models are the same, so it's really just the CPU flash that's different , robbing us of 20hp
I'm sure the car will Dyno the same as European counter parts despite any lower advertised ratings. With that said, chipping one will likley yield the same results with similar peak HP and TQ to the Euro spec. Kind of like back in 2001 when the 1.8t was rated at 150hp then 180hp in 2002. Chipping either car with an APR flash netted almost the same results on the dyno. the 150hp car just made more HP after the flash. VW bascially retuned the same engine to get the 180hp. It seemed like after the flash either engine made similar HP.
 
Like mentioned im sure the car will dyno the same as the euro version, lots of sports cars these days said horse power is quite a bit lower then the actual, take the new mustang GT 5.0 for instance which is roughly 50hp+ underrated.
 
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