K-16?

rennster5150 · Aug 31, 2012

Got an idea brewing about doing a K-16(with 440's, adj. FPR, AWIC & euro large port intake) to make more hp/tq & keep stock internals. Already have standard bolt-ons(CAI, 007, 2.5" cat back) on a Stage 2 by Gonzo & thinking about his Stage 2+ for this one. Can't find too much info on the turbo other than its basically a non-water cooled K04 with quicker spool.

All constructive input is greatly appreciated:beer:

doug@frankenturbo.com · Aug 31, 2012

I'm guessing you're interested in the K-16 that went in the 993 Porsche Turbo, yes? It's a nice-looking turbo, and its hot-side is comparable to that on a 2871. But its compressor wheel is woefully outdated and a poor performer. That coupled with the difficulty of installation kind of rules this turbo out.

rennster5150 · Aug 31, 2012

doug@frankenturbo.com said:
I'm guessing you're interested in the K-16 that went in the 993 Porsche Turbo, yes? It's a nice-looking turbo, and its hot-side is comparable to that on a 2871. But its compressor wheel is woefully outdated and a poor performer. That coupled with the difficulty of installation kind of rules this turbo out.

Ye-sir, it'd be from the 993. I was unaware of the comp wheel being lack luster, can you elaborate why? I dont understand how the install could be so complex. I intend on fabbing a manifold & down pipe for it, but it appears pretty straightforward(people use all sorts of turbochargers-why's this one so different?).

I appreciate the input, keep it rollin'.:thumbup:

DMVDUB · Aug 31, 2012

It's old, outdated, and isn't worth the money to have custom fabbed.

Go FT or Pagparts

rennster5150 · Aug 31, 2012

DMVDUB said:
It's old, outdated, and isn't worth the money to have custom fabbed.

Go FT or Pagparts

I can't directly afford to grab a complete kit(livin' la vida broke-ah:facepalm

which is why I figured piecing this together over a couple months & DIYing fab work would be a sound alternative. Presently looking at about $1050 for everything mentioned & don't plan on sticking with it forever either. No offense, but anything would be more fun than the baby K03.

doug@frankenturbo.com · Aug 31, 2012

I understood that you're trying to be novel and frugal at the same time. But here's a compromise:

Fab up the down pipe and lines as you know you can. Then send the turbo in for a rebuild and fitment of a better compressor wheel. The 24-series wheel found on Volvos is widely available and affordable. Go to a reputable rebuilder -- one who sources from Turbo International, for instance -- and have them make you a homebrew K16 hybrid. It could be really cool. A 24-series BorgWarner compressor wheel in that turbo would make all that effort much more worthwhile.

Good luck

jbutlertelecom · Aug 31, 2012

rennster5150 said:
I can't directly afford to grab a complete kit(livin' la vida broke-ah:facepalm which is why I figured piecing this together over a couple months & DIYing fab work would be a sound alternative. Presently looking at about $1050 for everything mentioned & don't plan on sticking with it forever either. No offense, but anything would be more fun than the baby K03.

If that total is for parts alone then you are already at the price of the franketurbo (a few more bux and you get the franken-manifold and larger TIP, you will have to make your own TIP for the K-16).
Both will still need a tune (although the Frankenturbo COULD be run on a stock file with some tweaks to keep things safe), one can be cookie cutter (Frankenturbo) and cost less, the other will HAVE to be custom (the K-16) because there is no cookie cutter tune already made for it, thus it will cost substantially more. Fuel injectors will need to be upgraded for either.
In the end, the Frankenturbo would have MORE potential for MORE power at a cheaper expense and would have better spool characteristics for the 1.8T (the K-16 was meant for V6 power behind it).

DMVDUB · Aug 31, 2012

I contemplated one of these type builds a while back... a long while. I decided after doing all my homework that a K16 is just not worth it.

As mentioned before there are a lot of other things to take in account;
Injectors

Custom Tune or Maestro (there isn't anything off the shelf that is specific to this turbo. Close, but close isn't close enough.)

Fuel Pump $250

Turbo inlet pipe $100 DIY welding and silicone couplers or $2-300 to have it fabbed

Downpipe Fab $100-$400

Manifold Fab $500-$1200

other supporting mods...

If this is something you are dead set on more power to you. I advise you go with Doug's Frankenturbo which has proven to be a nice little bolt on power adder with little to no hassle.

If you are 100% on doing this and you need someone to do the fab work you should look up NUBVR aka NUBWORKS. He is an amazing welder and for a decent price could make some great parts if he's willing.

BT is a lot more costly than what some believe. Yes a kit may be $4K, but expect another $2K on top of that for other things to make it work properly.

BT is always a cool project, me personally though I won't bother with that much HP on a FWD car unless it's dedicated to the strip. AWD with 350-450whp is different as you can still DD "safely" and take advantage of all the $$ and work put into it.

Vegeta Gti · Aug 31, 2012

DD "Safely"

your out of your mind. there have been people daily driving 500-1000whp(any configuration) for years and years. no issues, a single broken outer Cv earlier in the year(After 4 years) and two broken engine mounts after the build(years ago).

opinion is not the same as fact. don't make the two the same.

rennster5150 · Aug 31, 2012

doug@frankenturbo.com said:
I understood that you're trying to be novel and frugal at the same time. But here's a compromise:

Fab up the down pipe and lines as you know you can. Then send the turbo in for a rebuild and fitment of a better compressor wheel. The 24-series wheel found on Volvos is widely available and affordable. Go to a reputable rebuilder -- one who sources from Turbo International, for instance -- and have them make you a homebrew K16 hybrid. It could be really cool. A 24-series BorgWarner compressor wheel in that turbo would make all that effort much more worthwhile.

Good luck

jbutlertelecom said:
If that total is for parts alone then you are already at the price of the franketurbo (a few more bux and you get the franken-manifold and larger TIP, you will have to make your own TIP for the K-16).
Both will still need a tune (although the Frankenturbo COULD be run on a stock file with some tweaks to keep things safe), one can be cookie cutter (Frankenturbo) and cost less, the other will HAVE to be custom (the K-16) because there is no cookie cutter tune already made for it, thus it will cost substantially more. Fuel injectors will need to be upgraded for either.
In the end, the Frankenturbo would have MORE potential for MORE power at a cheaper expense and would have better spool characteristics for the 1.8T (the K-16 was meant for V6 power behind it).

Now this is good stuff, looks like this idea is back on the drawing board. As far as the aforementioned cost, it would include the turbo, injectors, AWIC set up, fabrication materials & the upgrade to my current tune-FT wouldn't have injectors, ECM upgrade, or the charge air cooler. I'm planning on doing the AWIC regardless of what turbo, figured the K-16 would be like a cherry to top it off.

Twopnt016v · Aug 31, 2012

FT>K16 IMO:beer:

rennster5150 · Aug 31, 2012

Twopnt016v said:
FT>K16 IMO:beer:

FT($)>K-16($) + me(-$) = :banghead:

what is IMO?

DMVDUB · Aug 31, 2012

safety comes with driver experience Vegeta.

If he's used to driving a car that breaks traction in the front at 60mph then he's safer than the guy who's never driven a car with that kind of power before. Whereas AWD won't break loose as easy at higher HP. One of my friends was killed years ago by his FWD boosted 390whp RSX because at 60+ the tires broke loose and he ended up in a tree. It was the first drive after he got it back from InlinePro.

I'm not talking about the engine or car. I'm talking about safety of the OP not getting killed by his project. It doesn't sound like he's building a track car, so what is the use of having 500whp on a fwd platform? Without slicks, LSD and a good track no 400whp+ fwd car is "safe" to daily drive unless you've worked your way up to that. point.

Can you daily a high hp fwd car... of course!
My point was, my personal preference for that kind of hp is AWD and if OP has never had a car that's FWD pushing a decent amount of power from boost he should be careful and work his way up. As anyone should.

Twopnt016v · Aug 31, 2012

rennster5150 said:
FT($)>K-16($) + me(-$) = :banghead:

what is IMO?

IMO means "In my opinion". I'm all about some custom setups but you did say your on a budget. Its gonna be hard to put the K16 kit together for the price of the FT kit. I believe you would really like the FT kit but I'm subscribed to see the K16 if you choose to go that route.:thumbup::beer:

groggory · Aug 31, 2012

rennster5150 said:
Now this is good stuff, looks like this idea is back on the drawing board. As far as the aforementioned cost, it would include the turbo, injectors, AWIC set up, fabrication materials & the upgrade to my current tune-FT wouldn't have injectors, ECM upgrade, or the charge air cooler. I'm planning on doing the AWIC regardless of what turbo, figured the K-16 would be like a cherry to top it off.

How the hell are you doing all that for so little? Even with self-fab

DMVDUB · Aug 31, 2012

that makes no sense

jbutlertelecom · Aug 31, 2012

You all are STILL missing the main point. The K-16 was meant to be pushed from a 3.6L displacement engine. Double that of our measly 1.8L.
Unless you do some major re-work of the turbine wheel/section as well as the compressor side, the wheel won't spool until ???? 5k? 6k? What the F is the point?
So: $1000.00 PLUS $350-400 (for rebuild with NEW wheel and compressor and machining of the housings) = The cost of a Frankenturbo setup.
It's your money, and your prerogative but to me it seems a complete waste of time.

Twopnt016v · Aug 31, 2012

jbutlertelecom said:
You all are STILL missing the main point. The K-16 was meant to be pushed from a 3.6L displacement engine. Double that of our measly 1.8L.
Unless you do some major re-work of the turbine wheel/section as well as the compressor side, the wheel won't spool until ???? 5k? 6k? What the F is the point?
So: $1000.00 PLUS $350-400 (for rebuild with NEW wheel and compressor and machining of the housings) = The cost of a Frankenturbo setup.
It's your money, and your prerogative but to me it seems a complete waste of time.

:thumbup:

rennster5150 · Aug 31, 2012

groggory said:
How the hell are you doing all that for so little? Even with self-fab

Mainly from preconditioned(lol) parts & my own labor.

jbutlertelecom said:
You all are STILL missing the main point. The K-16 was meant to be pushed from a 3.6L displacement engine. Double that of our measly 1.8L.
Unless you do some major re-work of the turbine wheel/section as well as the compressor side, the wheel won't spool until ???? 5k? 6k? What the F is the point?
So: $1000.00 PLUS $350-400 (for rebuild with NEW wheel and compressor and machining of the housings) = The cost of a Frankenturbo setup.
It's your money, and your prerogative but to me it seems a complete waste of time.

This isn't currently in the works, figured it would be objective to ask around first & glad I did too. I'll just have to stash some loot & keep investigating.

forcefedjetta · Aug 31, 2012

I'd like to see a Volvo 19t on a 1.8t if I weren't so lazy I may have tried it. would be laggy but pull like a mofo around 4800/5000

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K-16?

rennster5150

doug@frankenturbo.com

rennster5150

DMVDUB

rennster5150

doug@frankenturbo.com

jbutlertelecom

DMVDUB

Vegeta Gti

rennster5150

Twopnt016v

rennster5150

DMVDUB

Twopnt016v

groggory

DMVDUB

jbutlertelecom

Twopnt016v

rennster5150

forcefedjetta

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