I'm getting ready to have an ALH put into my Rocco and was wondering if there's any perks to an MTDI set up over full ALH set up?
ALH or MTDI?
MKIGTITDI
1 - 20 of 72 Posts
Electronic vs electrically controlled. 12v cummins vs 24v cummins.
One you can just dump obnoxious amounts of fuel (which equals power) but you have FAR less control over tuning. The other you can tune-in and dial-in nearly anything you could ever ask for, thus making a more efficient, egt savvy vehicle thats far more streetable/comfortable.
One you can just dump obnoxious amounts of fuel (which equals power) but you have FAR less control over tuning. The other you can tune-in and dial-in nearly anything you could ever ask for, thus making a more efficient, egt savvy vehicle thats far more streetable/comfortable.
Joined
·
3,822 Posts
LAWL WUTT? :laugh:
I dunno dafuq that means, but it s wrong.
I don't think you know exactly how these fuel pumps work, but being controlled mechanically (by a throttle cable) or electronically (by a wire) changes nothing.. except how you control the pump.
The fuel delivery, the amount of fuel delivered and the time at which it is delivered does not differ between M-TDI and E-TDI. Learn some stuff before you go spewing incorrect information.
A Bosch VE pump is a Bosch VE pump regardless of how it is controlled.
:banghead: I was thinking "mechanical pump", not mechanically controlled.
Joined
·
3,822 Posts
Well in the case of the 12v and 24v Cummins, Yes they are different. The 12v commonly uses a mechanical VE pump as well, whereas the 24v uses an electronic VP pump. Still the same basic principle though.
The ALH has a mechanical pump, it is physically the same on the inside as a 1975 rabbit 1.5 pump. Except for the electro-throttle and ability to move the timing piston based on the computers reading of engine sensors.
The ALH has a mechanical pump, it is physically the same on the inside as a 1975 rabbit 1.5 pump. Except for the electro-throttle and ability to move the timing piston based on the computers reading of engine sensors.
The vp37 used on an alh is an electronically controlled rotary pump... not quite a full mechanical pump at all. But I misunderstood the initial question.
^ ya thats exactly what I pictured you meaning; swapping a mechanical pump in or hybriding the TDI into a mechanical pump.
electronic injection is more controlled, refined, produces better (and more controllable) power, better mpg's, lower egt's....... i only suggest mtdi for a swap into a vehicle that didn't come w/ it stock. It can be a huge pita running wiring and harnesses and a dash if the vehicle doesn't have it already.
electronic injection is more controlled, refined, produces better (and more controllable) power, better mpg's, lower egt's....... i only suggest mtdi for a swap into a vehicle that didn't come w/ it stock. It can be a huge pita running wiring and harnesses and a dash if the vehicle doesn't have it already.
Joined
·
3,822 Posts
This too is what I meant when I made my first comment.. I am not laughing at you the op trying to learn, but the other guy whos been around the block and still has it wrong.
You can physically put a 1.9 AAZ pump on to the engine and run it.. I have done it. Will it tun? Yes. Will it make any power? No.
If you are going mTdi you need to read until your brain hurts then take a rest and read some more. This is not a swap for the feint of heart. I have probably well over 70 hours total in to my mk1 tdi swap...
The only route id recommend for the mtdi idea is a land rover pump. Found on the 300tdi Land Rover Discovery's.
I'd love for you to show me how I'm wrong.
Joined
·
3,822 Posts
1Z, AHU, ALH, even PD engines are not electronic injection. They are mechanically injected, look it up. Common rail? now that is different, those engines ARE electronically injected. Not an easy task to make an ALH a Common Rail.
Exactly.. Ever had one open? Still a mechanical injection pump. Still uses rollers, a cam plate, and a high pressure head and plunger.
Not entirely sure why you would love me to do anything to you.....
Seriously though, come on man.. You have a TDI.. you've been a member FOREVER.. Learn some siht. What do you do with your time spent surfing? Prioritize your surfing time, 75% learning.. 25% picture ogling. :thumbup:
Joined
·
3,822 Posts
Still stupid, guess you can't fix that.
Electronically controlled does not make it electronic injection, open up your fukkin eyes and read what I type.
It is still a mechanical pump, every aspect of injection is mechanical. There is nothing about injection that is electronic with a mk3 or mk4 TDI.
Really? Then why does injector 3 have a sensor in it? What happens if you disconnect the ecu on a vp37 car? How about pulling the wiring harness to it?
It won't run. Its timed, fired, and controlled electronically. A full mechanical injection system denotes there is no wiring or electronics involved in the injection event, this is not true for a tdi.
Go **** yourself.
Yeah my buddy just did a mechanical Canadian pump set up on a car for his brother and said its a grumpy sooty beast. Can't quiet get the right tune on it but is still managing 183whp at 231tq with it. I was trying to possibly avoid the splicing of the mkiv wiring into my mki but I may still go that route. I have no time at home for this last stage of the project of either the wiring or going mechanical portion of the set up. So I'm sending it to a shop. I know I'm cheating but I want the project back on the road. I'm cutting huge corners and still running an 020 trans when I know damned good and well I need to go cable but in the next year prior to doing a big turbo, injectors, ect I'm going to cable shift.
Joined
·
3,822 Posts
183 whp on a 1.9 AAZ (Canadian 1.9 IDI) pump? Interesting, what all has he done to the pump? It is most certainly not stock by any means. Does it have a modified internal throttle lever? :thumbup:
Injector 3 has a sensor to monitor injection, not to be a part of it. Well disconnecting the wiring harness is kind of cheating, the fuel stop solenoids power wire is in that harness. It is not fired electronically, it is a mechanical injection pump with a physical moving plunger inside.
"A full mechanical injection system denotes there is no wiring or electronics involved in the injection event, this is not true for a tdi."
I never claimed a full mechanical, this is not a Marine engine there Hoss.. they are truly full mechanical. Not even 12v to the stop solenoid. Guess what there Jacka$$, there is no electronics involved in the injection event on a mk3 or mk4 TDI engine. Still wrong, go lick your wounds. :laugh:
Injector 3 has a sensor to monitor injection, not to be a part of it. Well disconnecting the wiring harness is kind of cheating, the fuel stop solenoids power wire is in that harness
. It is not fired electronically, it is a mechanical injection pump with a physical moving plunger inside."A full mechanical injection system denotes there is no wiring or electronics involved in the injection event, this is not true for a tdi."
I never claimed a full mechanical, this is not a Marine engine there Hoss.. they are truly full mechanical. Not even 12v to the stop solenoid. Guess what there Jacka$$, there is no electronics involved in the injection event on a mk3 or mk4 TDI engine. Still wrong, go lick your wounds. :laugh:
Honestly I have no idea what he's done to it. He know his diesels. He's got a 800whp cummins as his daily. I'm either going with him to set up a mechanical set up or a different shop and having them wire it as full ALH. I have everything I need for the immobilizer but seeing what's more dependable in the long run that's something I can easily fix if need be.
Its really a matter of do you want to swap electronics? Thats the biggest determining factor. You can make a fun mechanical ride... but there's already a lot of negatives I've mentioned. The negatives to a full blown TDI swap into a non-tdi car are you need the cluster, ALL the sensors, wire up the ecu, etc. Wiring to me is a huge pita, and I hate mechanical... but mk1's are sweet so I'd be in a bind if I were you too.
Yes there's a plunger and rotor inside a rotary alh... but its electronically controlled; thats why I said 'electronically controlled mechanical injection'. Why do you think tunes are so effective? Because you can change nearly every aspect of the injection event with a simple addition or negation of 1's and 0's.183 whp on a 1.9 AAZ (Canadian 1.9 IDI) pump? Interesting, what all has he done to the pump? It is most certainly not stock by any means. Does it have a modified internal throttle lever? :thumbup:
Injector 3 has a sensor to monitor injection, not to be a part of it. Well disconnecting the wiring harness is kind of cheating, the fuel stop solenoids power wire is in that harness
"A full mechanical injection system denotes there is no wiring or electronics involved in the injection event, this is not true for a tdi."
I never claimed a full mechanical, this is not a Marine engine there Hoss.. they are truly full mechanical. Not even 12v to the stop solenoid. Guess what there Jacka$$, there is no electronics involved in the injection event on a mk3 or mk4 TDI engine. Still wrong, go lick your wounds. :laugh:
Look @ 12v rotary cummins from the late 80's and early 90's; THOSE are mechanical rotary injection motors. Theres NOTHING electronic about those rotary pumps, unlike our vp37's.
Joined
·
3,822 Posts
I rebuild Bosch fuel pumps... you even touched a wrench?
My neighbor is a mechanic. He tells me my loud turbo is "a really nasty vacuum leak that you better get checked out".
learn something:
http://www.appropedia.org/Volkswagen_group_Tdi_engine_with_VP_37_injection_pump
Read about the several handfuls of sensors that control the injection event in a vp37 car. Sure sounds like an electronically controlled mechanical pump to me.
1 - 20 of 72 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
