Where's The Real EA888 Engine For The USA MkVII's?

BsickPassat · Oct 10, 2014

VW vorne Au hinten Weh said:
Everyone speaks of their experience with old designs.
No one has any experience how this engine, with the redesigned crankcase vent internal oil separator, will do.

So much excitement about nothing.

some people (in this thread) said the same exact thing when the ea888 first came out..... no carbon issues due to the redesigned PCV system.

the 3rd gen ea888 isn't new for the MK7 in US/Canada market.

It was already introduced in 2014 on the MK6 Jetta, NMS Passat & The Beetle.... time will tell a lot sooner than you think

MK7Ray · Oct 10, 2014

Aonarch - any chance if you ever have some down time that you could publish a bit of a step by step for properly doing this procedure?

BsickPassat · Oct 10, 2014

MK7Ray said:
Aonarch - any chance if you ever have some down time that you could publish a bit of a step by step for properly doing this procedure?

try looking in the technical forums.

some of the steps of removing the intake manifold may be different tough.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...php?5355100-TSI-Intake-Manifold-Removal-DIY-Valve-Cleaning&highlight=diy+carbon

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...howthread.php?4611119-Cleaning-My-Intake-Valves-(Semi-DIY)&highlight=diy+carbon

milan187 · Oct 10, 2014

BsickPassat said:
some people (in this thread) said the same exact thing when the ea888 first came out..... no carbon issues due to the redesigned PCV system.

the 3rd gen ea888 isn't new for the MK7 in US/Canada market.

It was already introduced in 2014 on the MK6 Jetta, NMS Passat & The Beetle.... time will tell a lot sooner than you think

At most its a year old, and the 2014 model are not exactly the same either. Different turbo, no VVT? Speaking from old memory.

Truth is we have no idea how Gen3 will do with carbon buildup for the next little while. Could be better, or the same.
I had my Gen1 for a while (4+ years), rough idle was there on cold star-up probably due to carbon...Thats about it. Still not a big deal to me if at 100k I do carbon cleaning or even 60-80k.
I'm not saying I don't want MPI but certainly not a deal breaker.

XM_Rocks · Oct 10, 2014

fleaman said:
I'm aware of this, though would still be worried. If just a small partial bit was missed (stuck/imbedded into a small area of carbon into backside of the valve stem, etc,), it could spell disaster.

You are over thinking this. :beer::thumbup:

The backside of the stem would be clean as well... the media swirls around the chamber while vacuuming.

Its not like you are pinpoint spraying this stuff off.

Then at the end you let the vacuum run a few seconds to get all of the dust like bits.

If there were any bits you should see them at the bottom.

Plus breathe easy even if a small amount remained it wouldn't harm anything.

Its a very tiny spec of walnut shell... it would burn immediately at the temperature in the cylinder since it can reach 400+ degrees in the cylinder during combustion.

BsickPassat · Oct 10, 2014

milan187 said:
At most its a year old, and the 2014 model are not exactly the same either. Different turbo, no VVT? Speaking from old memory.

Truth is we have no idea how Gen3 will do with carbon buildup for the next little while. Could be better, or the same.
I had my Gen1 for a while (4+ years), rough idle was there on cold star-up probably due to carbon...Thats about it. Still not a big deal to me if at 100k I do carbon cleaning or even 60-80k.
I'm not saying I don't want MPI but certainly not a deal breaker.

the CHHB/CHHA does have VTEC (unlike the CPLA & CPPA), like the 2nd generation ea888 on the Audi's. However, VTEC won't solve or prevent carbon deposits.

while the EA113 & EA888 do not have EGR valves.... the EGR function does done via overlap of the exhaust valves with the intake valves (aka valve timing)

zukiphile · Oct 10, 2014

BsickPassat said:
the CHHB/CHHA does have VTEC (unlike the CPLA & CPPA), like the 2nd generation ea888 on the Audi's. However, VTEC won't solve or prevent carbon deposits.

while the EA113 & EA888 do not have EGR valves.... the EGR function does done via overlap of the exhaust valves with the intake valves (aka valve timing)

Does that mean that the carbon issue could be solved through reworked exhaust valve timing?

BsickPassat · Oct 10, 2014

zukiphile said:
Does that mean that the carbon issue could be solved through reworked exhaust valve timing?

it's a possible chance.

back when I had my MKIV TDI, with the ALH motor, the EGR was a huge culprit of the intake manifold clogging.... disabling (or removing) the EGR valve or reducing the duty cycle of the EGR were the ways to eliminate or reduce the buildup.

eliminating EGR increases the NOx emissions output.

Aonarch · Oct 10, 2014

zukiphile said:
Is this just on cars other than your new Golf? I assume you aren't cleaning that already.

MKVI GTI. Since these new motors do not have Port and DI, the results will be the same.

MK7Ray said:
Aonarch - any chance if you ever have some down time that you could publish a bit of a step by step for properly doing this procedure?

V V V

BsickPassat said:
try looking in the technical forums.

some of the steps of removing the intake manifold may be different tough.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...php?5355100-TSI-Intake-Manifold-Removal-DIY-Valve-Cleaning&highlight=diy+carbon

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...howthread.php?4611119-Cleaning-My-Intake-Valves-(Semi-DIY)&highlight=diy+carbon

KGB7 · Oct 10, 2014

VWRedux said:
When you tear down and rebuild or modify as many engines as I have, then come back and talk to me. I said "no matter what the procedure". Bottom line, take your heads out of the clouds and face reality, NOTHING WORKS like ripping open an engine and cleaning it manually.... NOTHING.... especially Italian BJ's! and SeaCrap!

Too bad this whole thing is falling on deaf internet dependent ears. No wonder why techs stay away from this place! I somewhat expected push-back from ignorant know-it-alls... but down-right confusion over basic engine fuel system mechanics is more than I can handle right now. So listen you all, go back and play in your MkVII sandboxes on the internet, pretend this thread never happened... good luck.

PS: BTW, one more thing... Please don't fall for the Catch-Can BS-HOAX here on Vortex... it doesn't work either and I proved it right here 3 years ago for those who remember.

I do agree, that nothing works better then elbow grease. I posted steps that i know how to keep them clean, or perhaps cleaner then doing nothing at all. If seafoam does not work, fine then, let us know what products do work to keep the carbon deposits at lower rate and keep them cleaner.

I read the thread from two years ago, and talk about brain hurt. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5288679-The-Hoedown-On-Catch-Cans&highlight=catch-can
You proved nothing! You went on a war path, demanding proof from Catch-Can makers, while you had no proof that they dont work or they partially work.

You worked on cars since 1975 and today is 2014. You had 39 years to document, video tape and photograph short and long term effects of Catch Cans. But after 39 years, you have nothing to show for. :thumbdown: Yet you demanded that Catch Can Makers show you proof!

On post 245, a user stated that he uses Catch Can and stated his valves are clean. Pictures are no longer there, just dead links. But after post 245, you said nothing at all. Im guessing, the pics showed very clean valves.

You want proof? How about showing US the proof that catch cans dont work!. Youve been working on cars for 39 years and have nothing to show for.

Cheers.

KGB7 · Oct 10, 2014

Heres a video, that shows that using product like BG, can clean a lot of the deposits. Its not 100% clean, but it did remove a good portion of buildup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biM5-GW4CLQ

Heres another video, showing a product that can clean carbon build up on EGR with out using elbow grease. And ill bet it will do a good job cleaning dirty valves as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrpxoxYmPsc

KGB7 · Oct 10, 2014

Aonarch said:
2/10

Have you actually tried using seafoam and pulling the manifold on these motors?

Guess what? I have. It didn't do squat. I even soaked the valves in seafoam over night. It still didn't do squat.

The only way they got cleaned was manually scrubbing them, or using a walnut media blaster.

I am speaking from experience here...

I'm not going to argue with you for two reasons, 1) I don't care at all about your opinion, and 2) Multiple friends and I have tried your advice and it doesn't work.

A few weeks ago we had a valve cleaning party. I'm serious. We got together drank beer and cleaned our valves. The only thing that worked was scrubbing and walnut blasting.

Do you have books on the planet that you live on?? Because you have ignored everything i said and just assumed what i said as a fact. I said, you have to take steps to keep them clean. I provided some of the steps,its up to you to fill in the rest.

Seafoam does not work? Fine by me, i said i used it ones on a car.
I also said, if you dont like Seafoam, then use other products that do work, there are ton of choices.

Reading is not that difficult. If you dont understand something, then ask for clarification.

Cheers.

Aonarch · Oct 10, 2014

KGB7 said:
Do you have books on the planet that you live on?? Because you have ignored everything i said and just assumed what i said as a fact. I said, you have to take steps to keep them clean. I provided some of the steps,its up to you to fill in the rest.

Seafoam does not work? Fine by me, i said i used it ones on a car.
I also said, if you dont like Seafoam, then use other products that do work, there are ton of choices.

Reading is not that difficult. If you dont understand something, then ask for clarification.

Cheers.

KGB7 · Oct 10, 2014

Direct injection internal combustion engine http://www.google.com/patents/US6866031?dq=valve+coating+carbon+VW#PPA1,M1

Gasoline engines with direct injection of the fuel into the combustion chamber, i.e., not into the intake port, suffer especially from the problem of the formation of carbon deposits on components. Carbon deposits form especially in the neck region of intake valves. A more exact analysis of how these carbon deposits form leads to the following result: Oil and fuel constituents first form a sticky coating on the components. These constituents are chiefly long-chain and branched-chain hydrocarbons, i.e., the low-volatility components of oil and fuel. Aromatic compounds adhere especially well. This sticky base coating serves as a base for the deposition of soot particles. This results in a porous surface, in which oil and fuel particles in turn become embedded. This process is a circular process, by which the coating thickness of the carbon deposits continuously increases. Especially in the area of the intake valves, the deposits originate from blowby gases and from internal and external exhaust gas recirculation, and in this process, the blowby gases and the recirculated exhaust gas come into direct contact with the intake valve.

Especially in the area of the neck of the intake valves, excessive carbon deposits have extremely negative effects for the following reasons: In the case of Otto direct injectors, the successful ignition of the stratified charge depends to a great extent on correct development of the internal cylinder flow, which ensures reliable transport of the injected fuel to the spark plug to guarantee reliable ignition at the spark plug. However, a coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may interfere so strongly with the tumble flow that ignition failures may occur there as a result. Under certain circumstances, however, ignition failures can lead to irreversible damage of a catalytic converter installed in the exhaust gas tract for purifying the exhaust gas. Furthermore, the coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve causes flow resistance, which can lead to significant performance losses due to insufficient cylinder filling, especially in the upper load and speed range of the internal combustion engine. In addition, the carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may prevent correct valve closing, which leads to compression losses and thus sporadic ignition failures. This in turn could irreversibly damage the catalytic converter. There is the potential for small particles to break away from the coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve and get into the catalytic converter. These hot particles may then cause secondary reactions and corresponding local damage of the catalytic converter. For example, a hole may be burned in the structure of the catalytic converter.

Globular deposits are found especially on the valve stem downstream from a partition plate in the intake port. Due to the dripping of high-boiling hydrocarbons from the partition plate towards the valve neck or valve stem, globular carbon deposits eventually form there by the sequence of events explained above. These deposits on the valve stem can result in flow deficits due to undesired swirling and turbulent flow around the globular carbon deposits. This may persistently interfere with the formation of stable tumble flow from cycle to cycle.

A possible solution would be to keep these sources of deposits away, for example, from the intake valve, by completely eliminating exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port. However, with the combustion behavior of modern reciprocating internal combustion engines, at least external exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port are absolutely necessary for reasons of emission control and fuel consumption, so that this approach is not possible.

VWRedux · Oct 10, 2014

BIGGREEK said:
GOOD NEWS!!!

After two pages, heres the answer.....

The Golf R in 2015 WILL be getting the dual injection in the USA.

As far as I know, the only option on the Golf R is DSG or Manual. Only a 4 door. But the options list is unofficial, they will reveal price and options approx. the end of the year.

Wow! That is GREAT NEWS!!! :thumbup: Where did you find this?

XM_Rocks · Oct 10, 2014

VWRedux said:
Wow! That is GREAT NEWS!!! :thumbup: Where did you find this?

That is great news if true.

Kind of makes sense since the Golf R will be built in Wolfsburg. :thumbup::beer:

BIGGREEK · Oct 10, 2014

This is from VW corporate

man.fridays@gail.com · Oct 10, 2014

BIGGREEK said:
This is from VW corporate

is the above a question or statement?

VR6Now · Oct 10, 2014

BIGGREEK said:
GOOD NEWS!!!

After two pages, heres the answer.....

The Golf R in 2015 WILL be getting the dual injection in the USA.

As far as I know, the only option on the Golf R is DSG or Manual. Only a 4 door. But the options list is unofficial, they will reveal price and options approx. the end of the year.

It has been reported that the US Golf R will not have dual injection. Since the Audi S3 uses the same engine as the R and is currently on sale here, It should have dual injection too. It's not listed as a feature and no S3 owners have reported it as being present. VW/Audi isn't going to certify an engine just to re-certify again in 6 months. They certified the engine in the S3 and they are going to certify the R on similarly with the same kit. Why would they give Audi less that VW?

BsickPassat · Oct 10, 2014

Aonarch said:

a person that has never owned a Direct injected gas engine... is the expert. It is the interwebz after all.

... on a side note... if spraying a cleaner through the throttle body is all that is needed... why did BG Products also had to make a GDI-specific kit that requires removal of the intake manifold and uses a 2 stage solvent system to properly clean the intake valves?

when they did there test with a Ford Ecoboost...... they didn't bother with their usual induction service. they went straight to their GDI-specific service. www.bgfueltest.com

190,000 miles... on I'm almost due for my 2nd intake cleaning on my FSI-turbo. It's either I don't know what I'm doing, or I must know something.

Where's The Real EA888 Engine For The USA MkVII's?

BsickPassat

MK7Ray

BsickPassat

milan187

XM_Rocks

BsickPassat

zukiphile

BsickPassat

Aonarch

KGB7

KGB7

KGB7

Aonarch

KGB7

VWRedux

XM_Rocks

BIGGREEK

man.fridays@gail.com

VR6Now

BsickPassat

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities