[billymade]

I have the ERR trans code in a 2002 new beetle turbo s; in this earlier version, there is no "cap" and thus, no access. I am assuming; because of the lack of a cap, the axial play issue, is not a problem? Can anyone confirm this; or is the play, still a issue but requires removal of the transmission and some sort of shim, modification of the case? Any info or input appreciated! Thanks!

PS: I am dealing with the same issues; as everyone else, I have a Southbend SMF "silent" kit, Stage 2, Endurance.

 

[billymade]

rstolz, can you expound on the statement: "the 02M slave cylinder may not generate enough hydraulic force to fully disengage the pressure plate from the friction disk." What exactly; is wrong with the stock/oem setup? I know that it is made of plastic; is it not robust enough (pressure wise), engineered for the lighter pedal pressure of the stock p/plate or is there something inherently inferior about it, compared to the earlier metal ones of the past? I know; that depending on the thermal temps of my car and weather; it does seem to affect the clutch problem (this could factor into your; hydraulic weakness explanation). Again, any info appreciated!

 

[billymade]

Thank you for your reply; my thinking, is that the hydraulic issue... (if I am understanding you correctly) is at the core of the problem! A long term and permanent fix; should be centered around the addressing the hydraulics that create the pressure (in this case, the master cylinder). I was wondering; if long term... the shim solution, would end up not being a effective and permanent fix; as clutch components wear (decreasing the added "amount of extension" for the p/plate to disengage) and end up with the same problem, again?! I have bought the shim kit and have yet to install it; I was concerned, the more I thought about the problem, whether or not it was a solid; long term, permanent solution to the problem. After hearing your take on things and seeing how the shims have been out for not a terribly long time; not enough, to hear about a scenario, where the clutch assembly wears allot. Now, I can see why many who installed the shims have a initial solution to the problem but maybe a explanation why is doesn't fix "all" of everyone's problems; of course, it is hard to know, a bunch of other potential factors that people are dealing with (not correctly bleeding clutch system, internal hard part trans issues, clutch hose, various clutch brands, etc. etc.) I see a potential weakness with the shims; as it isn't addressing the lack of hydraulic pressure, the core problem! What do you think? Do you think; the shim will lose its effectiveness over the life cycle of the clutch and other components; as they wear? If this is the case; then, I would like to deal with the hydraulics specifically and not have to worry about the problem ever again. As I am learning; it seems, that when you add aftermarket parts, you have improve all the other parts related to it. As with these clutches; the original part, is not engineered to deal with the added requirements of the non stock part and as many may argue, even the stock clutch was not effectively served by the stock clutch master cylinder. Let me know what you think! Thanks!

 

[billymade]

I already installed a steel braided line for the hydraulics (when I installed the clutch) but I haven't installed the shims yet; the installed upgraded hose by itself, definitely... does not fix the problem. Still need to pull the trans; fix some other things and install the shims, as well.

 

[billymade]

rstolz, so, the "boring out"; happens, on the earlier transmissions as well; because, there was too much play from the factory or for some other reason that I am not, understanding? I guess; I am not clear, as to where all this play comes from, all of the sudden or what inherent weakness, causes this to happen in the first place? I replaced all the bearings in the transmission; so, my bearings are essentially new but like I said, I did not check the play or pay special attention to it. I have 70k on my trans; with essentially new parts (bearings, 1st/2nd gear syncros, seals, repinned original shifter forks etc.). If/when I pull it out again; I certainly will check it. Would one; modify the case; like, the other newer 02M threads with the plastic cap, to make sure the bearing doesn't move (drill, tap; install something to restrict movement of the bearing outer shell/race?) I appreciate you; listening to all my questions, I just am trying to understand where any and all possible solutions to our problems, may lie! Thanks!

My trans is 2WD: ERR trans code.

 

[billymade]

kometmotor, if you have those part numbers; please post them up, this type of information is needed, so we in the 02M community... can finally, start fixing these inherent issues and have our cars work as they should! Thanks!

Also, from your shop/tech experience with customers cars; are you installing the NLS shim kit or trying to upgrade the hydraulics to deal with this issue, long term?


Any info, experience and feedback appreciated! Any and all info; that can be compiled here, will hopefully help everyone in their pursuit of a functional clutch/02M trans combo! eace:

 

[billymade]

satchimo, are you seeing this; on the earlier 02M's that DO NOT; have the external cover and would thus, require a trans pull, for this issue? Any info; appreciated! Thanks!

 

[billymade]

Thanks for your replay; I just rebuilt mine and put in all new bearings; I was not paying particular attention to this issue; as I was replacing all the bearings... as they were all scored from metal particulate in the gear oil from grinding gears and the classic 1st/2nd fork failure. If/when I pull the trans; I will check for beyond spec play. I am still; of the thought, that without a hydraulic master cylinder upgrade, we are going to continue to see this issue... until a "true" upgrade that deals with the core problem (hydraulic pressure is insufficient in stock form) is created by someone or implemented, some how. I hope; this is resolved somehow; by the aftermarket in some way, hydraulic failures (master, slave etc.) and insufficient performance seems to be a common "thread" throughout everyone's explanation of the issue. Please, someone... stop the insanity! :banghead:

 

[billymade]

I have a similar old trans, like you; I haven't check or dealt with the problem yet. To remove the race; you can weld on the race itself and it will drop out. That would require a replacement and you probably would want to replace the roller bearing as well; which might be a good idea, considering the problem you are having. If you want to reuse the race; the bentley, does show a specific puller to remove the races, I think it is made by kukko and a shop online does offer it for rental, you might be able to fabricate a tool of some sort. In my case; I was replacing all the bearings during my rebuild; so, I just welded on the face of the race with a mig and they dropped out from the shrinkage/heat.

There are some threads; where people drill a hole in the case and put a set screw to keep the race in place; aptuning, also seems to have a fix, you might contact them for more info.

http://www.aptuning.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=8

 

[billymade]

Here are some ideas; how I removed and replaced my races:

http://newbeetle.org/forums/transmission-talk/50942-turbo-s-just-lost-1st-2nd-my-02m-6-speed-3.html

You should have no problem getting the bearings; I had issues finding some bearings from non VW sources, in my case some where only available from the Volkswagen dealer. The exception to that rule; was the differential bearings, as they are used on other cars and brands as well. Just take your vin # and call or go down to your Volkswagen dealers parts department, they should have no problem getting what you need.

 

[billymade]

satchimo, are you seeing the same "play" issues; with the early 02M like mine (code ERR), that DO NOT have external access to the bearing (no plastic cap, sealed inside by the casting)?

Any and all pics, info and experiences you have had with your repairs, would be appreciated! Thanks! eace:

 

[billymade]

I would bleed the system with the phoenix systems reverse bleeder tool; works really well and quickly, one person job.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

 

[billymade]

These aftermarket performance clutches; just don't seem to hold up! :banghead: I am running SB "silent" endurance kit; it seems to be getting louder, louder as time goes on (it was pretty "silent" in the beginning; not so much anymore). I haven't pulled mine yet but makes me wonder; if there are issues not unlike yours!

It is really; that hard to make a strong, reliable, performance clutch or are we the customers, their unpaid/unintended/unknowing r&d department members, out in the field? Makes you wonder; if many of these designs, should have been tested longer or if they are fully developed designs?

I know; there is always the possibility of abuse, incorrect installation, fitment or wrong application; however, it seems there are quite a few people who have had performance clutch failures on many VWs.

I wanted a upgraded clutch; over the stock system but at times, I wonder if it would just be easier to go back to stock, eliminate all these issues we seem to have? Am I the only one? :banghead:

 

[billymade]

allanm, it seems like you have a early trans/box, like me; the shim issue... would require splitting the case, in our situation. Its encouraging; that people are starting to fix and resolve, our problems... we all seem to be having! eace: Thanks for posting and the pics/videos; hopefully, this collective knowledge will help us all, in our quest for relief from our trans woes! Please, keep us posted; if, over time, things start happening or reverting back to the way they were before (keep your fingers crossed!).

 

[billymade]

allanm, I was essentially; in the same situation as you. I replaced all the bearings (metal particles, scored the bearings), installed a Wavetrac LSD and welded and "pinned" my shifter forks, I did have the 1st/2nd fork fail. You can read about what I did here: http://newbeetle.org/forums/transmission-talk/50942-turbo-s-just-lost-1st-2nd-my-02m-6-speed.html

By the way; which spec clutch specifically, did you experience the spring failure with? That information; could help other people, experiencing similar issues. Did Spec; warranty the disk or did you have to buy a new one?

 

[billymade]

Ugh! So, annoying; that this isn't a easy fix or accessible, for those of us with the "early" versions of the 02M without the plastic cover! Anyone fixed the problem or found the issue; on the early 02M sealed versions?

 

[billymade]

I found all that information; in the software based eBahn (Bentley) manual or online through the erWin (the paper manuals from Bentley; will NOT have this type of in depth info/procedures).

 

[billymade]

For the bearing races; I just followed some diy's, if you use a mig welder and weld a bead on the them, they will fall out (no need for the special Kukko puller tool). I used brass punches; to carefully install new ones and a Clamping Dial Indicator (Pittsburgh Item #93051 from Harbor Freight); to measure the play.

Again, if this is beyond your skills; get a quote from a place like Aptuning and have them go through it to check out the whole unit. I would also; install a ARP bolt kit, for the differential as well (ARP diff bolt set VW/Audi 02M/02Q [ARP 204-3003]). Drilling out the rivets; isn't hard, a drill press and a hydraulic press, makes things easier.

 

[billymade]

Yes, I would replace them both; the trans tech that assembled my trans and measured the preload, found that all my bearing were in spec and didn't have to be shimmed.

I got pretty much, all my bearings from the VW dealership but I have seen, that bearings seem to be more available now (I replaced all the bearings; as mine were scored from metal shavings/particles). At the time; there wasn't a choice.

Keep in mind; I had my transmission apart and I was able to read the bearing part numbers in the trans, search that way (plus confirm ordered parts were matching part #'s).

I have seen bearing sets on ebay for the 02M and these guys seem to sell parts:

http://www.zelek.com/vw_hard_parts.htm

After exhaustive research; trying to cross bearing numbers and call a zillion places, even calling oem's I hit a wall on bearing availability. At that time; the oem's were telling me that all the bearings were being sold/distributed to Germany and VW AG, were not for sale to the aftermarket, that may have changed by now? They said; they have a exclusive contract for so many years and then, after that they may make them for the aftermarket.

For the differential bearings; they are a common size and you should have no problem getting them at any auto parts store (the particular size; is used on MANY cars and even USA/domestic cars). I think I got a set of quality TIMKEN bearings; online, Rock Auto or even amazon for dirt cheap. For the other internal bearings; at the time of my rebuild, most were dealer only (unique sizes; specific to that transmission). Check my rebuild thread; for more info. Seeing how you are only replacing a couple of bearings; they probably won't be terribly expensive from your vw dealer; just research and decide what is best for you. Online VW dealers; tend to be cheaper on prices but sometimes, dealing with your local VW dealer is a good idea and they can help figuring out what you need and its easier to return parts, if they end up getting the wrong ones. Be sure; to have them search for parts, based on your transmission code and VIN #, to ensure you get the right parts.

 

[billymade]

Well, you have a early version of the 02M; to reshim (possibly repair) the input shaft/bearing, you would need to pull the trans and split the case, to investigate what is going on. You would need to figure out; if the output bearing/shaft, is the cause of the problem. There have been other solutions to the issue; they attempt to address these issues, through the hydraulic aspect of the clutch. This is caused by increased pressure of the high performance clutches; this perspective of the problem, is that the stock system cannot handle the increased hydraulic pressure needed, to activate the clutch and fully engage/disengage the gears correctly. What type of clutch; are you running, how much mods/horsepower do you have and how many miles on the car?

Check out this thread; for other hydraulic based solutions, to the clutch engagement problems:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...h-issues-Replaced-everything-still-have-issue