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I would first bleed the slave cylinder. See what that gains you. This fix is honestly more for the transmission than the Clutch.

I would go with the NLS shim or another company that is producing Slave cylinder kits for the MK4 platform ( looks pretty beefy).
I bled it and no luck my clutch still does not depress.

I ordered both the main shaft shim and the NLS shim.

I question if these shims will bring it back, or if my slave is simply shot from over worked from the aftermarket pressure plate.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
@514:

For kicks, change the shim first. I'm curious to see how well the shim performs on its own.
Of course, if your slave is pooched there's really nothing you can do outside of pulling the transmission, but excess play in the main shaft has a huge affect on how the clutch disengages.

Good luck, report back and keep us posted with your results

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #64
For the record, after replacing dozens of 02M clutches (Spec, Soutbend/DXD, OEM, Clutch Masters) I haven't found it necessary to use the NLS slave shim on any occasion.

The only thing I've ever used to fix clutch creep specifically has been the addition of the main shaft shim. This is not to say the NLS piece is not worthwhile, I just haven't found a clutch/slave issue yet which requires that sort of thing. Clearly, preventing the main shaft from "walking" (and dragging the clutch disc with it) by installing the main shaft shim works, as several users on this thread have expressed, and they performed the fix in "around 15 minutes".

The verdict is still out there on whether or not it actually fixes anything or if it's just another temporary patch-up that will end in disappointments and tears, so we need some data on implementing this fix alone to correct the problem. I believe it will work in every case.

Jeff
 

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God I hope it fixes mine, just started creeping since it's gotten into the single digits and wasn't looking forward to dropping the trans

Sent from my SPH-D710VMUB using Tapatalk
 

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@514:

For kicks, change the shim first. I'm curious to see how well the shim performs on its own.
Of course, if your slave is pooched there's really nothing you can do outside of pulling the transmission, but excess play in the main shaft has a huge affect on how the clutch disengages.

Good luck, report back and keep us posted with your results

Jeff
Hello Jeff,

I will change the shim first and report back. (I am impatiently waiting for parts to arrive)

In the numerous jobs uve done have you have you ever had a clutch not disengage at all and then install the shim to see results?

In the below thread many people report of clutches not engaging to varying degrees:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5501345-02m-Clutch-Issues-(heavy-pic-content)

FYI. Weather here is below freezing and I daily drive in winter. When I first installed the clutch I had creeping and sporadic clutch not disengaging. In the last weeks it was getting worse and worse.

Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Hello Jeff,

I will change the shim first and report back. (I am impatiently waiting for parts to arrive)

In the numerous jobs uve done have you have you ever had a clutch not disengage at all and then install the shim to see results?

In the below thread many people report of clutches not engaging to varying degrees:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5501345-02m-Clutch-Issues-(heavy-pic-content)

FYI. Weather here is below freezing and I daily drive in winter. When I first installed the clutch I had creeping and sporadic clutch not disengaging. In the last weeks it was getting worse and worse.

Thanks,
I'm trying to wrap my head around your current situation, regarding clutch not disengaging. I gather that if you start the car in gear, clutch pedal to the floor, the car propels itself as though you have not pressed the pedal?

Or does it drag slightly and propel itself?

Or do you press the pedal and it sticks to the floor?

In my experience, if the pedal has resistance and it feels right, though the clutch wont disengage, either your clutch disc has separated and looks like pulled pork or the pressure plate has broken.
In any event, I would still start with the simplest and cheapest repair which is the mainshaft shim and cap.

jeff
 

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I gather that if you start the car in gear, clutch pedal to the floor, the car propels itself as though you have not pressed the pedal?

CORRECT


I always had the sticking, drifting symptoms. Just before it got really bad I would pump the clutch 4-5 times and it would kinda disengage until it finally stopped disengaging all together.

When bleeding there was a big build up in pressure. It feels almost like the slave is pushing against a wall.

Anyways I will report back and keep it updated!
 

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Oh God. Have a southbend dxd stg 5 that was getting stuck in gear, notchy shifting, and creeping. Put a shim in, usp clutch line, and removed the restricter in the bleeder block. Shifts like butter

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Had whining noises coming from the tranny on deceleration with every gear. Did this simple fix along with a fluid change and the noise has disappeared and shifting is smoother. Thanks a million for posting this DIY! It's these posts that keep my car rolling.
 

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I'm running a Golf 02m gear box and a Spec stage 2 clutch with SMF the Code is FML so it doesn't have the end cap as shown in the video.
The box is on a Renault and less then 1000 miles ago it was converted using a fully rebuilt box which had the main bearings replaced and modified selector forks, clutch and slave cylinder (supplied by spec) and has been running fine with no issues other then the odd hard to select gear while cold and a rattle in 3rd while decelerating.

Symptoms of my problem
1)You can get into all gears while the engine is off
2)While the engine is on, if you attempt to put it into gear it won’t go into gear but it will start to drag the car a little
3)If you start it in gear it will take off so the clutch is working just it wont go into gear while the engine is running

I have bleed the clutch and it is rock hard now so I don't think it is that.

So while looking over the internet I came across this thread but can't see to find If anyone has managed to fit this shim into the FML box which has no cover and has a solid metal end, does anyone have further info on this?
 

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Discussion Starter #76
Well, I haven't yet seen this problem on those early dual taper roller bearing mainshaft boxes, so I can only speculate at this point. My experience, and this thread, is focused mainly on the later 02M's from '04 and up with open end cap design and access to the ball and cage bearing.

The first question I have is whether or not there was play or bad bearings in any shafts prior to or after the rebuild, and whether all bearing preloads were taken seriously. If all checks out OK, then it could be non compliant gear oil or possibly a bad flywheel. Gear oil should be VW GL4 spec OEM part G 052 171 A2. Use it.

Are you using a Clio conversion flywheel?
 

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Discussion Starter #77 (Edited)
Here's the problem in a nutshell:

The play that's notorious in the later boxes is axial, or "in and out". The main shaft and it's bearing literally slides back and forth in a reciprocating motion that is detected when you tug on it and push it back in. Slight play (1mm/.040") isn't a huge problem but once it gets to certain point of wear (2+mm/.125") its assumed it makes contact with the 1st/2nd/3rd pinion shaft and continues to spin through friction from that contact, independent of the clutch disengagement.

A more realistic theory is that the clutch disc hitches a ride with the reciprocating shaft and bounces back and forth between the gap of a disengaged clutch, skimming either the flywheel or pressure plate, depending on where the shaft ends up after accel or decel. This is obviously a bad thing, and I think it's the best explanation so far due to the fact that it explains the issue perfectly when at a standstill, (ie pinion shafts aren't spinning, therefore could not spin the main shaft)

Seeing as the gears are helical gears there is a repeated reciprocating motion upon accel and decel, with the helix forcing the main shaft from one end of play to other end. This obviously gets worse and worse unless this play is arrested, because what is actually happening is the rear shaft ball bearing, complete with retainer snap ring, starts to machine the case.

In your case, there is no bearing that behaves like that when worn. Your 02M has upper and lower taper roller bearings that sandwich the main shaft between the 2 case halves. Any play in that style of bearing fixture means big trouble, because you have more than just "in and out play" but also radial or "side to side" play and lots of slop in the whole thing. That play, if present, can be fixed by placing graduated OEM shims behind the bearing race(s) to remove that play, until a specified "preload" on the bearings has been achieved. This can only be done on your early box with the tranny removed and case split apart.

There are a few potential causes for that sticky gear condition, so it's important to rule out the common sense stuff like gear oil and clutch hardware etc. I once had a customer upgrade to a 6 speed and when he installed the shift box he bent the end of the shift cables ever so slightly that the kinked cable ends got stuck in the sheathing trying to engage 1st2nd and especially reverse.

It is entirely possible that your setup, "Heinz 57" with conversion flywheel, adapter plate, aftermarket clutch, aftermarket slave and whatever you used for a clutch master has some kind of interchange issue. You may require a different fix that's being sold on this forum, the NLS slave cylinder shim. Some people swear by it...

Jeff
 

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Well, I haven't yet seen this problem on those early dual taper roller bearing mainshaft boxes, so I can only speculate at this point. My experience, and this thread, is focused mainly on the later 02M's from '04 and up with open end cap design and access to the ball and cage bearing.

The first question I have is whether or not there was play or bad bearings in any shafts prior to or after the rebuild, and whether all bearing preloads were taken seriously. If all checks out OK, then it could be non compliant gear oil or possibly a bad flywheel. Gear oil should be VW GL4 spec OEM part G 052 171 A2. Use it.

Are you using a Clio conversion flywheel?
The Fly wheel is a custom SMF which is made to fit the 02m with the crank holes for the Clio crank and the Renault trigger pattern.
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/renault-vw-flywheel/

The conversion in case anyone was interested
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/clio-02m-upgrade/

The box it's self was rebuilt when I purchased it and had the main bearing replaced but I only had an invoice for this.
I then had a Quaife installed and the box was pulled apart and checked for tolerances by a local Gearbox rebuilder, I was told it was all fine and they recommended the selectors to be bolted and welded while the box was apart so this was also done. The oil used was the genuine VAG oil specified for the o2m from a main dealer as the gearbox place said it was the only oil to use with this box.
It was running fine for about 1000 miles and over the space of 5 miles suddenly wouldn't engage the clutch anymore.
 

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Thanks for the additional info Jeff, the master cylinder is also from a golf the standard one which is used as OEM, its even using the clutch pipe work from the golf too.
I think it maybe a case of take the box out again and checking it for play in the shaft, if not maybe a shim on the slave as suggested.
 
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