180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test

2100 Views 45 Replies 42 Participants Last post by Dan Oldham, Feb 9, 2002

Ali B

Discussion Starter · Feb 8, 2002

I just got my latest issue of Car & Driver in the mail tonight. The cover story is a hot hatchback comparison test between the GTI 1.8T, Ford Focus SVT and the Honda Civic Si. The GTI, equipped with 17" wheels, finished last (1 point behind the second place Honda) despite being the fastest car in the group with a 0-60 at a blistering 6.5 seconds. I haven't read the whole story yet, but I am rather shocked that they would pick a Focus and Civic ahead of the much higher quality GTI.

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SergeAugustin

· #2 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Ali B)

wow i didn't even read the article and im pissed, dag who would choose a focus or that not so pretty si over the gti? man im drueling over a gti i want one so bad, im about to do like the commercial and go and lick one and claim it mine

Pelican18TQA4

· #3 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Ali B)

My guess is it lost against the SVT and the Si because the GTI is soft in the suspension department. Plus, it probably costs more.

BlackGTiTurbo

· #4 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Pelican18TQA4)

quote:[HR][/HR]My guess is it lost against the SVT and the Si because the GTI is soft in the suspension department. Plus, it probably costs more.[HR][/HR]

most likely both. oh, and also the little things that go on behind the scenes at those tests

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DohRado

· #5 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Pelican18TQA4)

it lost just like it should have. volkswagen's suspension is simply inferior, but obviously that can be easily remidied with aftermarket upgrades. stock volkswagens can no longer handle like the mkis and mkiis

Sappa

· #6 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Ali B)

its all due to the droopy suspension and slopy shifter.

BananaCo

· #7 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (BlackGTiTurbo)

quote:[HR][/HR]most likely both. oh, and also the little things that go on behind the scenes at those tests

[HR][/HR]

I guess/hope not. I don't work for C/D or anything but I grew up on C/D and I really liked how they rated cars.

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nianmuzik

· #8 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (BananaCo)

I bet the C&D owner owns a civic....

[Modified by nianmuzik, 5:41 AM 2-8-2002]

Suomiperkele

· #9 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (nianmuzik)

Don't u get it guys?? The manufacturer who throws the most $$$ in the direction of the magazine wins, conspiracy I say

I have read the C&D a couple of times, when I was in the US on a holiday, and IMO it bites.. Big time, it should be named CAR and GRANNIES..

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4

Sam1.8T

· #10 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Suomiperkele)

But one thing I have to agree with them. Handling!! I think a Civic handles much better than a GTI or a Jetta STOCK!! I used to have a 92 Accord with puny 14s and that thing handles much...much better than my Jetta that has sports suspension and low profiles. I guess same with a Focus. But when you put springs on a MKIV I sure it's a different story....

10"jetta

· #11 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (SamTheMan)

quote:[HR][/HR]But one thing I have to agree with them. Handling!! I think a Civic handles much better than a GTI or a Jetta STOCK!! I used to have a 92 Accord with puny 14s and that thing handles much...much better than my Jetta that has sports suspension and low profiles. I guess same with a Focus. But when you put springs on a MKIV I sure it's a different story....[HR][/HR]

I completly disagree with that. My brother inlaw has a focus and my mom has a civic si (cool mom)

. I have driven tham both extensivly and my jetta glx vr6 with sport suspension and 17's absolutly blows them away, especially the focus. My bro inlaw will tell the same thing. When he drives my car he always tells me he regrets buying his. He consoles himself with the eight grand he saved but that doesnt help when he cant keep up in the twisties. I know my cornering speeds are higher in the jetta and I can put the power down sooner on corner exits. As far as CD mag goes they never liked the mkIVs. They cant comprehend that VW has gone upscale and would like to compete with other high end German cars. Basically they said that they liked the car but couldnt justify the price. They kept saying they could have the Dodge Neon for 10,000 less. Dodge Neon? Please. They should think of it like this. How about a glx with 80 % of the performance of a 330i at nearly half the price. Now that's a bargan

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TheCeleryStalker

· #12 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (10"jetta)

Focus SVT and Civic SI will easily out handle both the GTI and Jetta, it would not even be a contest. I know it sucks, and we can say all day oh mod this and that, but this was a compro of stock cars. My only complaint is that they tested these brand new versions of both cars and then tested a non 24v GTI with a one gear missing, I think VW did well with a 5 spd and a car that is unchanged except the HP bump.

VeeDubDriver

· #13 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Ali B)

It all depends on your priorities and what needs to be fixed. It is much easier and cheaper to upgrade the suspension on the GTI than to upgrade the interior and motors on the other two cars. Shifter, yes there is no question that the VW is at the bottom of the barrel, but the new 6-speed feels 100X better.
The people that test these cars have their own sets of priorities with respect to what is an important atribute on a car and what is not. However, their priorities and your priorities almost certainly aren't the same. I know what I like and what I don't, and I don't need someone else to tell me.

Flacker

· #14 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Ali B)

I think in this "comparo" they were testing and rating these things in some sort alternate world where the rating is derived simply from how "fun" these cars were when tossing them around a really twisty road course. The obviously superior luxury, safety, style, and stoplight-grandprix-turbo-rush power of the GTI was not considered. My conclusion is the editors were rating these cars as fun little toys rather than as real-world, multipurpose, one-car-per-owner vehicles. Lately I've been thinking that Automobile magazine has this more real-world perspective on the automotive buying decision.
One insight that made me think though; they said sonething like the GTI was the musclecar of the group. I think that's true, and thinking about GM's future, when I drove to work today in my GTI, I thought that this was the type of car that GM should try to build. I think it would fit with the overall GM persona-muscleluxurysmoothness-identity. If I were Lutz, the current markIV would be the benchmark that I strove to exceed.
And honestly, I think if GM built the GTI, it would have won the comparo.

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TheCeleryStalker

· #15 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Flacker)

Not to mention the fact that the 12v Vr6 came in I think second in the other magazines comparison. It's all subjective. We dont need a magazine to tell us if we love our cars or not. I still hate the suspension though.

[Modified by TheCeleryStalker, 11:51 AM 2-8-2002]

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VR_Zoom

· #16 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (10"jetta)

quote:[HR][/HR]I completly disagree with that. My brother inlaw has a focus and my mom has a civic si (cool mom)

. I have driven tham both extensivly and my jetta glx vr6 with sport suspension and 17's absolutly blows them away, especially the focus. My bro inlaw will tell the same thing. When he drives my car he always tells me he regrets buying his. He consoles himself with the eight grand he saved but that doesnt help when he cant keep up in the twisties. I know my cornering speeds are higher in the jetta and I can put the power down sooner on corner exits. As far as CD mag goes they never liked the mkIVs. They cant comprehend that VW has gone upscale and would like to compete with other high end German cars. Basically they said that they liked the car but couldnt justify the price. They kept saying they could have the Dodge Neon for 10,000 less. Dodge Neon? Please. They should think of it like this. How about a glx with 80 % of the performance of a 330i at nearly half the price. Now that's a bargan[HR][/HR]

First...Volkswagen can't compete with bmw with the current models. A 330i is faster, smoother, better built, handles better, looks nicer, has more options...the list goes on and on.
And second...There is a reason that Car and Driver put our cars up against Neons and Focuses...Like it or not our cars aren't any better than those cars unless we are traveling in a straight line. And don't even start about quality because our cars finish behind them when it comes to things breaking. Maybe its time for some of us here to realize we don't own the best car in the world and the competetition has already passed us.

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MatchStick

· #17 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Ali B)

The thing is, the editors at C&D LOVE the Jokus. They openly admit it. So what do you think happens when they come out with a Jokus with balls? I could have predicted that comparo from a mile away. And they have a traditional hard-on for Hondas.
As I said in another thread about this in the Car Lounge, those Honda and Ford guys can brag about winning the test all they want. There's a line in there that says the GTI is "fastest by far." Honestly, with a lot of these dudes around that's all that matters anyway. Yet they continue to buy Hondas and the Jokus. Who knows. Sounds like the review was spot on. I bought my car and I would by a 1.8t for some of the exact things they say about the car. I could get a Weitec GT kit and a rear sway bar for under $600.00 right now. That's not a lot of money to spend on a car that will b!tch-slap both those cars in the twisties AND the 1/4 mile...

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bo

· #18 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (MatchStick)

Keep in mind, Focus SVT was built by the racing department in Ford, it is in fact a World Rally Car and it is doing pretty good in the race. Therefore I am not surprised that C&D picked the SVT for performace and handling. However, I still think the interior of any Focus looks a little crappy, unlike our GTI's, we have the luxury look and feel.
Civic si and GTI? Well, Honda cars always have better shifter, and compare to GTI's stock shifter, I can see why people pick the Civic because of that reason, but other than that, why would you want a Civic?

rbenjami

· #19 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (Ali B)

See http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=239385 for more discussion on this topic.

10"jetta

· #20 · Feb 8, 2002

Re: 180 hp GTI 1.8T finishes last in C&D comparison test (VR_Zoom)

quote:[HR][/HR]
First...Volkswagen can't compete with bmw with the current models. A 330i is faster, smoother, better built, handles better, looks nicer, has more options...the list goes on and on.
And second...There is a reason that Car and Driver put our cars up against Neons and Focuses...Like it or not our cars aren't any better than those cars unless we are traveling in a straight line. And don't even start about quality because our cars finish behind them when it comes to things breaking. Maybe its time for some of us here to realize we don't own the best car in the world and the competetition has already passed us.[HR][/HR]

I did say 80% of the performance at roughly half the price. I didnt say as fast. I realize that bmw's are faster, smoother, blah blah blah. But the jatta is still "only " $25,000, compared to 45 or 48,000 for a 330i. So it ought to be faster, smoother, blah blah blah. Dont forget you buy a 330i and you still have to add leather, suspension package, cold weather package, upgraded stereo. As I said 80% of the performance for roughly half the price. Oh and I also realize I dont own the best car in the world, not for twenty five grand. I was just pointing out that I didnt think c/d mag was looking at this car in the right light

[Modified by 10"jetta, 2:30 PM 2-8-2002]

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