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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Stock 1.8T Coils are junk. Literally. They barely work and misfire constantly, just enough to not trigger an increment on the misfire counter of the ECU, but enough to make you go insane and feel a hesitation or have fluctuating vacuum due to varying completion of combustion events at idle and under load. Just because folks have made 700+whp does not mean they did it without using barely functional coils. It is like boiling a frog in a pot of water, you don't know you are done for until the water is boiling as you have adjusted to the increasing heat over time and problems.

Since the 1.8T came with these crap coils, we think that these cars run fine. Reality is they do not, at all with stock coils, stock tune even. Perceptive people who are aware can pick this up as described above.

This has been the case of EVERY 1.8T I have owned, and I am on my third and fourth personal cars, as well as tinkering with countless other local cars. THEY ALL HAVE LOW GRADE MISFIRING! You can't datalog it, because the misfires are slight enough that the crank speed sensor monitoring code is not picking up on the very slight slowdown/hesitation. (If I remember right that is how the misfire counter/detection works. It increments a counter for a cylinder when the crank speed sensor detects an oddity[simple explanation]). You can feel it as a hesitation, and see your vacuum readings fluctuate ever so slightly, maybe .5" hg to 1" hg with a little bit of uneven shake at idle.




/* BIG TURBO UPDATE */

Isaam did 27psi on a large turbo @ .040 gap. Noticed the same results as everyone with stock turbos.

Pete @ IE Engineering did a 800hp engine dyno run with these coils @ .026 gap.

/* Update */

My personal results on stock turbo carsI am really enjoying the 1.8T more. My beater super stock 02 AWP jetta has never run smoother even with brand new pushdowns. 190k on the original motor, cracked coilpack harness that is oxidizing bad since we bought it 3 years ago (I know, but it stills runs better even than when it had brand new pushdowns 1.8t coils & no vacuum leaks!)

They are also 20$ at the dealer.

I run them on my 98 AEB 1.8TQ Audi now as well, no more external igniter and hello awesome running with no hesitation. The results on this one are skewed, I replaced the oem coilpack harness with a MKIV setup and the original 98 harness had a lot of dark oxidized copper going back down the wire towards the ECU, and a fair amount of resistance probably from being cooked by the turbo over time.


Literally drop in if you have a proper valve cover (AEB cover is too short and lets debris into the plug/coilpack bores) and good coilpack harness.

Currently running a .042 gap on both cars, no issues with a new harness and the coils below. Smoother running, throatier sound. More power all over in vacuum and boost. Moving up to .050 soon to test.


Spartiati said:
Have been too busy lately to make it out to the dyno but I do have some realtime numbers to discuss. Today I through the mk5 coils in my 1.8t and went for a drive. Cruisin on the highway with my cruise control set to 65mph the egt gauge was showing temps of 1120* F ... That was strangely higher than what I remembered so I got off the next exit and popped the 1.8t coils in and did a little lap between exits. I hit cruise control again at 65 mph and the 1.8t coils were holding an egt temp reading of 1060*. It was the same road using roughly the same exact speed and temps were looked at after about a mile of the cruise control being activated.


Nothing crazy scientific but we can def see that the 2.0t coils burn hotter. I'm assuming this is because you are getting a cleaner burn? This is were I'm confused if the cleaner burn would cause higher EGT readings or what?

I did not have time to do any full throttle runs but I figured I post this finding and open it up for discussion so we can bounce some ideas around.
Discussion revealed it is the result of a cleaner more complete burn. He also as you can see did some back to back testing.


Parts list:


Parts list to do this:

1J0 971 658 L
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
They are taller. You need an AWW/AWP or ATW valve cover to seal the bores, or the gasket is above on an AEB cover.

The pinout is 100% the same as the MKIV. They may very well be a hotter coil, as that coil is used on the lean burn stuff in europe which requires a much stronger spark to go boom proper.

It is certainly a noticable difference. There is no more hesitation, car feels eager to climb the tach and start pulling, both of them.

100% plug and play unless you have an AEB motor then it takes wiring and soldering.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I increased the plug gap on bkr6e's in my stock 190k mile Jetta to .040 and it runs great, no misfires.

0 vaccum leaks, 100% stock minus silicon IC tubing and a APR turbo intake pipe.

Now that the coilpack harness is fixed, it is getting a 4.3v zener and a MBC.

See how these coils do at 20 or so psi with a larger gap.
 

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good find bro!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Everyone swears the stock coils are great for 800hp because force fed did it. I don't care, the coils suck and always have. I always had random misfires here of there even when new, and I could never run the plug gap I run now with push downs or bolt downs on a stock car even without serious hesitation and enough to increment the misfire counter.

LSx coils, plug wires and etc may be better but who knows. If someone cares to measure some spark somehow and verify it I would love to see a test.

I had hesitation that was ignition related, yet would not increment the misfire counter, if I remember right that works on crankshaft speed, so enough to suck and notice but not enough to register.

My 2007 Impreza does this also, the motor rocks at idle out of time with firing events and noise. It absolute ****ing irritates me.

This 190k mile Jetta did this also and I thought maybe carbon fouled plugs or a dying coil. Now it pulls 20 inches of vacuum with a rock solid needle at idle no bouncing, no hesitation. The car sounds absolutely different at idle, fresh plugs and a .040 gap, no other change but the coils and fersh plugs. It sounds throatier and crisper with the larger gap too. I sort of did this in stages. It was 2.0T coils, stock old bkr6e & trashed coil pack harness. Noticed a good difference. Then new plugs, gapped out. Noticable. Finally coilpack harness on it all and the coil pack harness actually made NO difference really when dry out. When wet or humid i would get misfires and noticable hesitation, plus the random intermittent miss codes.

Now that coilpack harness, even the wires that were NOT cracked were noticably oxidized. Even if they are not broken you may have crappy wiring causing misfires thanks to enough resistance. My AEB harness was blackened copper under the insulation. No good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
erevlydeux said:
Word. I have the ECS coilpack pushdowns so as long as there is some meat on those coils that will seal against the AWP valve cover, the pushdowns should keep them in check.

Had misfires on cyl 1 & 2 since I got the car, so maybe it's time for new coils + harness + plugs... might have to give these a whirl. If they work good, might be able offer some sort of discounted all-in-one ignition refresh solution.. but I do get ahead of myself and should probably test this ish out first.



EDIT: for anybody that's willing to take the plunge... you can achieve this pretty damn cheap already.... we're talking sub $130 for a full revamp.

4x 2.0T rev F coilpack (07K905715F) - $61.50 - black color, price is total for four
1x coilpack wiring harness (1J0971658L) - $45 - full replacement harness from VW
1x ignition harness conduit (06F971824C) - $12 - protects the wires along the valve cover

The total comes to approx $119 before shipping when I got all the parts in my cart on 1stvwparts. ECS is way more expensive. This is excluding spark plugs but you can get those for super cheap pretty much anywhere.

With the way our coils are, being able to fully replace the whole chain of components from ECU to spark plug with a more powerful/reliable coil for sub $150... when the actual 1.8T coilpacks are less reliable/more expensive... seems like one hell of a deal.
Forgot to add the car is getting better mileage also. Add another 10$ for BKR7E plugs from Autozone.

The motor rocks properly at idle, no oddball jumps here or there. It used to be steady in RPM but now it is shocking for the mileage on this thing. I mean it idles better than any 1.8T i've owned, and I had one with 13 miles on it in 2000, a 4 door 1.8T Golf AWD code.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I just moved to BKR7E plugs at .041 gap. No misfires. runs great. I scanned the car as well before starting it with the new plugs, not a misfire code period. My CE was from secondary air delete :)

Too bad it started raining, i was going to go beat on it. 19psi on a mbc was too much for the BKR6E's. I pulled them and they showed signs of heat early.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I also can't take much credit someone out there mentioned the pin outs between the coils were the same. I just thought hey lean burn, and 80$ experiment next time I had coil issues.

I had a push down die and leave me running on 3 cylinders about a month ago and a co-worker gave me a ride to the dealer where I picked up the 2.0T coils.

I am actually happy daily driving this high mileage 1.8T now, and will not be buying a new or another car. :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I would not shorten it, I would move to a valve cover off an ATW or 4 pin coilpack longitudinal car. Or you just can let junk get into the plug bores, if they are not oil you can shop vac the debris out before pulling the plugs.


I did that a few times, I popped the packs out and stuck a 3/4" heater hose into my shop vac hose, sealed it with my hand and it pulled everything out.

I'd reccomend that regardless on older cars.
 

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ya i have bolt down coils on my TT, since the gti is down ill just drop my awp valve cover on it and pick up a set of these coils. I probably should just do an entire wire harness (install wot box at the same time)
 

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ya i have bolt down coils on my TT, since the gti is down ill just drop my awp valve cover on it and pick up a set of these coils. I probably should just do an entire wire harness (install wot box at the same time)
Josh you think these are better than bolt downs?

Someone with a meter needs to measure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Josh you think these are better than bolt downs?

Someone with a meter needs to measure.
You may need more than a meter to test the spark. Major differences can simply be seen visually if you have two plugs in two coils and cycle them. But last I checked, a multimeter will not suffice :) :beer:

Oh and a cool tip, if you are ever testing ignition coils like this and have a sinus infection, the ozone generated will help fix that, from ionizing the air.
 
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