VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner

2005 Phaeton won't start

1 reading
3K views 48 replies 9 participants last post by  Phaeton4ever  
#1 ·
Hello, I have a 2005 Phaeton with 110K miles that won't start. Accessories work with key to the left but nothing to the right. Both batteries are new. VW dealer thought it was a switchover starter relay but that was replaced and nothing. They are now telling me that the scanner they has will not scan a 2005 Phaeton. They are telling me that once they updated the scanners they have, the Phaeton is no longer included in their update and they can't do anything to help me. The car had been driven in the morning just fine but when I went into the garage in the afternoon there was nothing. The car eventually sank after a day which made it hard to get towed along with the gearshift unable to get out of park. Any suggestions or ideas with what may be the issue?
 
#4 ·
There is a button under the gear selector cover that disengages the lock on the gear selector so you can put it in neutral.
Remove the cover, it's (the button) located underneath and pointing to the front of your car or closer to the infotainment display...

Also try using the buttons that adjust your steering wheel column - if that locked out due to the broken wires - you have a slight chance of getting them to work one last time by moving your steering wheel column.

Anyhow the car doesn't just stop working without any errors on the dash (did it show anything flashing or just in plain text when you tried to start it?) or in some controllers so a scan should point you somewhere... and dealers BS about not being able to do it... what? They don't have means to scan an OBD equipped car?
 
#6 · (Edited)
To press the shifter solenoid:

First you have to remove the shift knob.

I don't think my shift knob will come off in Park. It has to be in Neutral. If you break your shift knob trying to remove it, only green or blue ones are available new from dealers in the USA according to the online parts site that has lied to me recently. The bolts I needed were so not in stock. Anywho, here is what they say about the knob:
CONSOLE.. Volkswagen (vw.com)

Post #1 shows how to reinstall the shift lever (knob) and post #4 shows how to remove it. It says in both posts that the shift lever has to be in Neutral but the picture in post #4 shows it in Park:
(7) How to Reinstall the Leather Transmission Shift Lever? | VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum


See post #2 for the first step after removing the shift knob:

Then lift up on the chrome shift gate to try to pull the shifter surround including the wood up. You might be able to pull the rest of the trim up.

Mine is too new at only 20 years old to pry up that easily. I have only had it apart about 3 times. The tabs are too stiff to pop them loose up by prying the chrome piece. I have to remove the cupholders and pry up the shifter trim from inside the holes the cupholders live in. I can get it almost high enough to disconnect the connectors on each side of the switch bank without trouble. You have to almost force the harnesses up. It helps if the cupholders are out so you can reach inside to pry the connectors from the top with one finger and through the cupholder hole with the other. One hand on each connector.

If the shift knob is out of the way, you can pry the trim up enough to disconnect the mirror switch and the cigarette lighter connector. Then when it's up far enough, you can disconnect the antenna at the front. You also have to disconnect the ribbon cable to the shift indicator.

You will take all of this out of the way:

Image


It will look like this on the bottom:

Image


Here is the auction I got the images from:

See post #5 below to show what it will look like if you are able to remove the shift knob in Park and all I mentioned. Then you can get at the solenoid.


If you break the plastic piece putting the shift knob back on, here is the part you need:


Another member here (Phaeton4ever?) showed us this auction for the plastic part that breaks. I think it's a 3D printed part.

 
#7 ·
If you don't have VCDS or a similar scan tool at your disposal, perhaps you do have access to a digital multimeter. Although you've stated the batteries are new, it wouldn't hurt to take some measurements. Hooking the batteries up to a suitable charger/maintainer would also be something to consider. It wouldn't be the first time new parts arrive having issues.

I remember a professional engine rebuilder once showing how a new camshaft from a reputable supplier had a wrongly placed timing mark stamped on the end.

Knowing the logic behind the system helps identifying the issue. Take a look at SSP 272.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for all of the feedback. The car is in Arizona and we haven't had rain in months and it is garaged nightly. I tried the left turn, right turn of the key when I first encountered the issue but nothing happened. All the accessories did come on but nothing when turned to the right. Nothing out of the ordinary displayed on the dash either. I replaced the starter battery with a new charged one but that didn't help. I did pull up the console and tried pushing in the forward facing button to release the gear shift but I wasn't successful with that either. The tow truck driver put skids under the front wheels to pull it on the flatbed. VW dealer thought it was a bad Switch over relay 3D0906383 but that didn't solve the problem with a new one. The dealer gave up after that and said there was nothing that they could do. I had it towed to an independent shop 2 days ago and I haven't heard anything back yet. I'll post when I find out what codes they pull.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for all of the feedback.
You're welcome.

I replaced the starter battery with a new charged one but that didn't help.
It was a long shot but I held out hope that would help.

I did pull up the console and tried pushing in the forward facing button to release the gear shift but I wasn't successful with that either.
That should have worked if you were able to get to it. You still have to press the button on the shift knob or pull up on the center part if the knob is removed.

The tow truck driver put skids under the front wheels to pull it on the flatbed. VW dealer thought it was a bad Switch over relay 3D0906383 but that didn't solve the problem with a new one. The dealer gave up after that and said there was nothing that they could do. I had it towed to an independent shop 2 days ago and I haven't heard anything back yet. I'll post when I find out what codes they pull.
The tow truck driver must have thought it was FWD. It needs dollies on all wheels.
 
#14 ·
The Independent German service shop gave up so had it towed to another VW dealership to give it a shot. With all the equipment mechanics have I'm not sure why they can't diagnose the issue. I hate to give up on the car when it nay only be a simple part. Not sure if I mentioned that it had bottomed out. Almost as if it just wanted to be put down for good.
 
#19 ·
Agree with Phaeton4ever, there is a common issue with wiring to steering column lock that could be the problem.....however paying someone else to learn is very expensive hence the question regarding a Phaeton trained mechanic. Novices can introduce issues when they do not know what they are doing......like the tow truck driver.
Mark
 
#21 ·
If it's the N360 steering column lock fault then you should be seeing the message “Steering Defective Workshop” in red on the instrument cluster display. This will also lock out the windows and sunroof, basically everything that needs the ignition on to work. You will still be able to lock and unlock the car though.

Btw, if you plan on driving your Phaeton for a longer time then you should really consider investing in a VCDS cable/dongle to be able to run a scan. This issue would most likely been diagnosed by forum members, if we would have seen a complete fault code scan.
 
#22 ·
The dealer agrees that the problem lies in the steering column and I received a replacement estimate of close to $4,000. I love the car but I can't justify putting that much into it and still not be 100% sure the column was the issue. I've seen steering columns on ebay for $100-200 but the dealer won't install a used part. They said that they had had issues pairing with the Kessey module/keys? I have another mechanic that has worked on the car in the past but he's a single man shop but seems to handle anything in front of him. I don't know the complexity of changing out the steering column and then have issues with the Kessey. Any final thoughts before I put the old gal down for good?
 
#23 · (Edited)
Hit the Intertubes. There are people that fix those locks. Or look if someone offers an emulator that works with Phaeton. Changing the thing is not that bad. There was a thread recently.
Edited:
Can you please give us the exact reason why the dealer thinks the problem is in the steering column. Your communication so far has been a bit vague. We're trying to help, but without the full story, we cannot.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Usually simple problems don't require a steering column change - unless you've smashed your car at the wall or something...

I had the wires come off (broken) at the steering column (lower right part of it), it took an hour to fix, it was done around two years ago - problem didn't come back yet.

As far as dealers go - they are usually lazy bastards and want to change as many parts to new ones as they can come-up with/justify, using their astronomical prices for parts and labor...
 
#25 ·
Just pinned the dealer down. They said it’s the lock module imbedded in the steering column that is the issue which is why they are recommending replacing the entire column. Is there a way to replace the module without the entire column? Maybe a way to bypass it? I’m not worried about the car getting stolen.
 
#26 ·
2005-2012 VW Phaeton ELV Emulator for N360 Steering Column Lock ESCL Module Repair
This Volkswagen ELV Simulator is for repairing N360 Steering Column Lock modules. Support car models VW Phaeton 2005-2012, Touareg/A8/Porsche 2004-2010, Bentley 2005-2015. Only need to remove the main chip from the pcb of original escl module then welding it to this new simulator
0.0 (0 Reviews)
2 sold
$65.00. Has anyone heard of this as a possible solution?
 
#29 ·
I've given as good advice on this issue as I can. Again, here are the facts regarding ESL as I see it: There are 3 areas of failure 1. wire breakage. Very common, easily fixed. 2. Mechanical failure, namely the actuation motor or gear. Can be fixed by acquiring a used ESL and swapping circuit boards. 3. Electrical failure. Can be fixed by acquiring a new ESL and programming it to the car. That's dealer only and they are required to replace the steering column with a new ESL mounted to it.

So, what exactly is the case with your ESL?

Other options for case 3. are: an emulator. I have no experience with that for Phaeton. Repair. Probably doable if it involves a dead capacitor or a dead relay. There is only one major chip on the board. I was unable to find a datasheet or other info. There is no EEPROM I can identify.
I know one thing: You ain't gonna "weld" the chip to the board.
Image