[Shumax]

I will start by saying the car was smooth before I did what follows.

I bought new Moda MD27 18" rims, with centering rings, and Blizzak WS90's mounted and balanced. They were roadforce balanced to under 15 lbs. of roadforce. I'm nearly 100% confident it's not a balance issue as those are solid figures. I have my own machine in my garage, but this was done at a shop I am friends with.

I then added 10mm and 15mm ECS spacers to the front and rear, respectively. I also then bought extended CONNICAL bolts for the Moda Rims. I also have extended BALL SEAT bolts for the OEM rims.

From 60-70mph, the steering wheel shakes bad. So much you can see it move about 1" up and down. It's bad. The ECS spacers have the flange that extends off of the bore, so it centers on the rim/rings fine. I also added antiseize to the spacer. When I put the wheels on, I used the bolt you put in one hole to get the rim on. I tried to center everything and then put all the bolts in with a star pattern. I tightened them, but not fully. Lowered the car and torqued everything down in a star pattern.

What's at debate, to me? Do those MODA RD27 rims need conical or ball seat bolts? The vendor I bought them from, called their supplier, and they said BALL SEAT. I then called Tire Rack and they said CONICAL. Would mixing those up cause this? Could it be an issue with the spacers?

I appreciate some vibration at speed from poorly balanced/roadforced tires. I know that feeling. This is dramatic to see the wheel shake that much. It's shocking. Something is off. But, go back to my first comment. It was smooth with the OEM rims. So, it's NOT the car. I am 200% sure of that.

I see three potential areas of potential issue? Centering rings. Check, have them. Spacers? Not sure what could be wrong, but...? Ball seat vs. conical bolts. Could that do it? Also, how can I, for sure, understand what the MODARD27's take for this car? Short of swapping to the BALL SEAT bolts (the conical bolts are on now), I'm not sure what to do when my vendor says one thing and Tire Rack another.

Look forward to any guidance. Thanks!

 

[OhioSpyderman]

Thought you went 19" Black Line wheels (I thought I read you located a set?)
I can't answer your questions, but I'm sure other members can ...

Bob.

 

[reyracer19]

Why would you downgrade to 18"? I just got my wife a 22 SEL R-line Black package and it comes with 19" from factory. All they need are some spacers but since it's the wife's car, I see no point in upgrading the rims. It also has some nice P-zero rubber from factory.

 

[Shumax]

I went to an 18" rim package for SNOW tires. That's what's on it now, and applies to the above.

Yes, I also then went to the 19" black rims for the SUMMER tires, which are not on the car now. Note, the original 20" tires/rims were very smooth.

 

[AxelP]

I will start by saying the car was smooth before I did what follows.

I bought new Moda MD27 18" rims, with centering rings, and Blizzak WS90's mounted and balanced. They were roadforce balanced to under 15 lbs. of roadforce. I'm nearly 100% confident it's not a balance issue as those are solid figures. I have my own machine in my garage, but this was done at a shop I am friends with.

I then added 10mm and 15mm ECS spacers to the front and rear, respectively. I also then bought extended CONNICAL bolts for the Moda Rims. I also have extended BALL SEAT bolts for the OEM rims.

From 60-70mph, the steering wheel shakes bad. So much you can see it move about 1" up and down. It's bad. The ECS spacers have the flange that extends off of the bore, so it centers on the rim/rings fine. I also added antiseize to the spacer. When I put the wheels on, I used the bolt you put in one hole to get the rim on. I tried to center everything and then put all the bolts in with a star pattern. I tightened them, but not fully. Lowered the car and torqued everything down in a star pattern.

What's at debate, to me? Do those MODA RD27 rims need conical or ball seat bolts? The vendor I bought them from, called their supplier, and they said BALL SEAT. I then called Tire Rack and they said CONICAL. Would mixing those up cause this? Could it be an issue with the spacers?

I appreciate some vibration at speed from poorly balanced/roadforced tires. I know that feeling. This is dramatic to see the wheel shake that much. It's shocking. Something is off. But, go back to my first comment. It was smooth with the OEM rims. So, it's NOT the car. I am 200% sure of that.

I see three potential areas of potential issue? Centering rings. Check, have them. Spacers? Not sure what could be wrong, but...? Ball seat vs. conical bolts. Could that do it? Also, how can I, for sure, understand what the MODARD27's take for this car? Short of swapping to the BALL SEAT bolts (the conical bolts are on now), I'm not sure what to do when my vendor says one thing and Tire Rack another.

Look forward to any guidance. Thanks!

Is it possible that after you lowered the car on the ground bolts were not tight enough to center the rim and rim moved and you tightened it up offset? In our cars rims are hubcentric....
so you need that proper centering seat ring, otherwise my best guess would be to lift the car, loose all bolts and retorque them in the air to full spec and try again. Not sure about your specific rims how they solve that problem with hub/rim alighnment.

Probably swapping the bolts is the other option...highly recommend to tightem them up while rim is in the air unloaded it will ensure that you got it centered by the bolts properly.
My 5 cents

 

[Shumax]

As an update, I had my H&R springs installed today. I must say, what a difference in the stance - and they haven't completely settled yet, either. It looks so much better, even with the snow tires.

Get this, though. I had the installer take the spacers off the front and rear. Just to test things out. The drive home? 95%+ of the shimmy is gone. I couldn't see the steering wheel move at all. What's left is probably just new tires 'settling in.' So, it begs the question - what about those spacers caused this issue? I now have $225 of ECS spacers I likely can't return. Frustrating.

Also, the mechanic said the Moda wheels, on it now, should have conical bolts which is what I have on it. So, assuming he's right, I guess I'm fine.

I'm still not sure I follow how the spacers could have caused this issue....

 

[Shumax]

duplicate

 

[OEMplusCC]

Yes wrong bolts will cause issues. Why dont you just look at your wheels and see what type of bolt they need? Remove a wheel and see which bolt matches, if you are getting mixed answers.

2.
Remove spacers temporarily and see if the issue goes away.

Simple process of elimination and visual inspection with measuring will give you lot of answers

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[Shumax]

Yes wrong bolts will cause issues. Why dont you just look at your wheels and see what type of bolt they need? Remove a wheel and see which bolt matches, if you are getting mixed answers.

2.
Remove spacers temporarily and see if the issue goes away.

Simple process of elimination and visual inspection with measuring will give you lot of answers

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Timing. That's the biggest issue. This surfaced, today, on my way to have the springs put in. So, I've not had time to do what you suggest; though, it's a good one. When I look at the rim, how do I tell which bolt type it needs? I admit that I'm not as versed in that area.

 

[snobrdrdan]

Buying wheels with the correct offset and/or wider wheels, and not screwing around with spacers, would totally help too btw

 

[Shumax]

Agree. Would be difficult to do with the OEM rims, tho. .

 

[snobrdrdan]

Agree. Would be difficult to do with the OEM rims, tho. .

True

I've always used H&R spacers, and never had any issues though

 

[KMS12]

Shumax did you ever identify what was causing the problem? Did you get it fixed? Also are you still liking the HR springs?
Trying to decide between coilovers or springs.

 

[Shumax]

The spacers were warped. I am still fighting with ECS for my $, even though they agreed to refund me. Awful Company. Sad, as I live 15min from them.

I am very happy with the springs. Perfect height and no issues!

 

[KMS12]

Shumax, thank you for responding. I am going to start with HR springs before going to coilovers. This will free up money to do other mods. This not the first time on this forum people have been talking bad about ECS. I was always under the impression they were a good company for mods. Maybe they were, and things have change in their origination to cause the poor customer service and ECS branded products.

Did you end up buying a differnet branded spacer, 10mm front and 15mm rear?