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Discussion Starter #1
I just bought a 20th AE and it handles very bad in high speed corners. The rear starts swerving back and forth even holding the steering wheel perfectly still. The car only has 35000 miles on it and nothing seem to be worn in the rear. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks - Sam
 

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Re: 20th AE ill handling (ridenred54)

Define "High Speed"
90 degree corners, less than 90 degrees, decreasing/increasing radius corners?
When was it last aligned?
How many miles are on the tires?
How even is the wear (frequent rotations, or mount and forget them?)
When was the last time pressures were checked? Adjusted? What are they?
Original struts/shocks? What is their condition?
Way too many variables in your question to even remotely suggest a cause ...


Modified by f1forkvr6 at 10:44 PM 10-30-2007
 

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Re: 20th AE ill handling (f1forkvr6)

#1 tires & tire pressure
#2 alignment
#3 dampers (shocks & struts)
I would investigate in that order.
 

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Re: 20th AE ill handling (f1forkvr6)

Long sweeping corners, 90mph. The tires are brand new Kumho avx"s set at 50 psi. The tires that were replaced did the same thing. Wear pattern on the old tires was very even. Car seems to ride good under normal driving conditions, no bouncing or swaying. Could it be weak rear shocks? It's like the rear goes to break loose than comes back, and keeps doing it. The struts and shocks are original but only have 35000 miles on them.
 

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Re: 20th AE ill handling (ridenred54)

Quote, originally posted by ridenred54 »
set at 50 psi


You autocrossing 24-7, son?

How is your driving style?
 

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Re: 20th AE ill handling (ridenred54)

Quote, originally posted by ridenred54 »
The tires are brand new Kumho avx"s set at 50 psi.

Those pressures will more than likely handle like complete crap on the street - aim for something in the neigborhood of 35lbs +- one or two pounds. You'll be amazed at the difference this will make.
 

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Re: 20th AE ill handling (f1forkvr6)

check your tire pressure i think its 35 psi. my 20th was doing a little ass wiggle when the tire pressure was low
 

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Re: 20th AE ill handling (ridenred54)

VERY SCARY! My car does the same thing. I have a 2002.5 GTI with 88k miles with Michelin Pilot Sports A/S at 30 PSI all around. Even wear, rotated every 10k miles like the dealer said.
I am holding off a bit on suspension because I keep hearing so many different opinions.


Modified by VWGolfA4 at 11:13 AM 11-2-2007
 

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Re: 20th AE ill handling (VWGolfA4)

I immediately thought rear shocks when I read the first post. 50# does seem too high for daily driving, though. But even at 35K miles, the rear shocks could very well be shot already.
 

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Vw recomends that the air pressure should be 26 in the rear and 28 in the front i think it should say on your gas cap but that varies on the load your carrying
 

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Re: (BMP20thAE)

First, 28/26 is for ride on a gently driven car. I typically run 34-36 PSI all around, 38 if I've got a lot in the car or am at the track.
And I suspect both of you that are reporting wandering have worn or broken rear axle bushings. They're starting to appear a lot in older VWs, especially ones that are driven on urban (read: lousy) roads. High mileage isn't necessarily required. It's worth checking out.
 

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Re: (IndigoBlueWagon)

I felt like my stock suspension was wallowing in corners with a slight dip. and this was around 20,000 miles. It just kept getting worse and worse.
New dampers helped in that case.
Also, when you're going around a corner (that fast!!) I hope you are holding a constant throttle. Any changes in throttle settings will upset your car.
 

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Re: (traffic)

I go to the dealer for everything, they set my tires to 30PSI all around.
Quote, originally posted by traffic »
Also, when you're going around a corner (that fast!!) I hope you are holding a constant throttle. Any changes in throttle settings will upset your car.

Yes I understand that, but the problem is sometimes you end up having to let off the gas or hitting the brakes. Thats when the rear gets all crazy.
Is there anyway to prevent this?
 

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Re: (VWGolfA4)

Quote, originally posted by VWGolfA4 »
I go to the dealer for everything, they set my tires to 30PSI all around.
Yes I understand that, but the problem is sometimes you end up having to let off the gas or hitting the brakes. Thats when the rear gets all crazy.
Is there anyway to prevent this?

You, my friend, need to sign up for some HPDE (high performance driver training)
No matter how good your suspension setting is, you have to understand the dynamics of handling. When you're taking the corner and you're on the throttle, your chassis is very balanced and settled.
If you lift or worse hit the brake mid-corner, you move the balance. Your front wheels get loaded and dig in while your rear gets light. The back end will want to step out on you.
At this point, if you keep braking or stay "lifted" off the throttle, the back end may come around.
At an HPDE, you can spend time right at the limits and work on smooth throttle inputs. If you feel like you're overcooking a corner, you can ease off the throttle to tighten up your line. Again, if you lift or brake, not only does it upset the chassis, but you can overload your front tire and you'll push in the corner.
When you feel like your rear is gonna step out, ease back on the throttle to help settle the suspension. Keep your steering input smooth and look towards where you want to go.
 

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Re: (traffic)

Quote, originally posted by traffic »

When you feel like your rear is gonna step out, ease back on the throttle to help settle the suspension. Keep your steering input smooth and look towards where you want to go.

Hmm--I always thought that you should stay on the throttle--or get on it more--with a FWD car to keep the back end from swinging out. Turning into the slide always helps.
Shifting weight to the front by slowing the car down only makes the rear lighter and more likely to step out.
 

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Re: (zak)

Quote, originally posted by zak »

Hmm--I always thought that you should stay on the throttle--or get on it more--with a FWD car to keep the back end from swinging out. Turning into the slide always helps.
Shifting weight to the front by slowing the car down only makes the rear lighter and more likely to step out.

Its a fine line. Too much throttle and you will just loose traction on the front. The only way to gain traction on the front is to let off the throttle. Let off too much and you lose the rear. Its all about smoothness and balance.
This is why its so important to take a high performance driving school on a closed course so you know what your car is capable of. Its neither safe, nor practical to discover this on the street.
 

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Re: (phatvw)

I understand what you guys are saying about weight transfer and the driving school, but this never happened on my 1995 Golf. Im guessing that the GTI is faster so Im going into turns faster. I did have H&R Sports and Bilstein Sports on the Golf and so far the GTI has the stock suspension. I also had a sound system in the Golf (Three 10 inch JLs), so the rear was heavier. Im not into sound systems anymore and would like to get into performance. Im trying to get my friend to go to the Skip Barbar School with me.
The GTI stops alot better / faster. I had rear drum in the Golf, which sucked.
I upgraded the GTI with the TT brakes in the front with Hawk Pads. Would more brakes in the rear reduce this? I was thinking of getting the TT Rear setup. I know I cant eliminate this but how can I reduce it? Better suspension? What about upper / lower strut and or sway bars? I assume that a RSB would increase this because it makes the rear stiffer and would swing around more or does it act the other way by keeping it stiffer and more planted so it wont swing around faster?


Modified by VWGolfA4 at 8:15 AM 11-5-2007
 

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Re: (VWGolfA4)

Well, having owned a '96 gti, I can say that its been tuned to be "safe." Basically big understeer. I too had Neuspeed sport springs and Bilstein sport shocks. No rsb upgrade.
My '03 VR6 GTI was even worse.
Manufacturers (especially their lawyers) love understeer. It is safe. It keeps their cars out of statistics and newspapers.
I think you've hit on another thing. The tires that the ae comes with are a lot grippier than those that came on your '95 golf. Hence, you are going a lot faster through the corners so there are more forces at work when you're at the limit.
Also check your tire pressures. You should be running something like 34/32 on the streets. Too much rear tire pressure can get it quite squirrelly.
BTW, do you have a GTI or 20ae? If you just swapped the suspension, did you get the "C" bumpstops as well? Or are you running on "B" bumpstops that came with normal GTI's?
Your rear brakes don't do a whole lot in hard braking. They are practically in the air. Upgrading the rears will help your feel and prolong brake fade in the rear. Too much rear bias will make your rear looser.
You can try upgrading your springs and struts/shocks. This will help all around and still maintain your bias towards understeer. But really, driver skill's training will be your best mod.
 

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Re: (traffic)

I didnt mean to but I guess I hi-jacked the OP. I do not have a 20th or EA. I have a 2002.5 GTI 1.8T.
As far as PSI, I am running 30 all around. That is what the dealer set it too. The sticker for my PSI settings (it was on my gas cap, came off so I do not have that info)
 
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