20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't...
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Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (ntrldub)
For the sake of discussion, the 3rd valve is more involved in better emisions, at least that is what was said at the unveiling of the engine. I think the turbo makes more sense for a smaller displacement engine, simply because of the tuning abilities. VW wasn't planning on that one, I think.
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For the sake of discussion, the 3rd valve is more involved in better emisions, at least that is what was said at the unveiling of the engine. I think the turbo makes more sense for a smaller displacement engine, simply because of the tuning abilities. VW wasn't planning on that one, I think.
Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (ntrldub)
quote:[HR][/HR]Therefor, wouldn't it be smarter to run a supercharger instead of a turbo on the 20v engine? Just a thought.... please inform me if i'm wrong
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[HR][/HR]
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this? I mean, the extra valves provide more intake capability, but I can't think of any way this could benefit a supercharger more.
Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (bento)
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quote:[HR][/HR]
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this? I mean, the extra valves provide more intake capability, but I can't think of any way this could benefit a supercharger more.[HR][/HR]
superchargers run off the intake portion of the engine
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this? I mean, the extra valves provide more intake capability, but I can't think of any way this could benefit a supercharger more.[HR][/HR]
Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (ntrldub)
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quote:[HR][/HR]
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this? I mean, the extra valves provide more intake capability, but I can't think of any way this could benefit a supercharger more.
superchargers run off the intake portion of the engine
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[HR][/HR]
What the heck does that mean?
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this? I mean, the extra valves provide more intake capability, but I can't think of any way this could benefit a supercharger more.
superchargers run off the intake portion of the engine
Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (FastGTi)
The benifit of the turbo over the SC, is the fact that smaller Cubic Centimeter engines can rev higher, a super charger can only spin a a pre determined speed (pulley size) therefore it quits working at a certain RPM.
SC's are for low end right off the line power, not for top speed. a turbo if tuned right will keep putting out until the motor just can't turn any faster.
Thats why you see super chargers on alot of trucks and 4WD vehicles.
Hope this info helps
The benifit of the turbo over the SC, is the fact that smaller Cubic Centimeter engines can rev higher, a super charger can only spin a a pre determined speed (pulley size) therefore it quits working at a certain RPM.
SC's are for low end right off the line power, not for top speed. a turbo if tuned right will keep putting out until the motor just can't turn any faster.
Thats why you see super chargers on alot of trucks and 4WD vehicles.
Hope this info helps
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39,855 Posts
Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (ntrldub)
One intake port per cylinder.
One exhaust port per cylinder.
All the valves do is provide a means for getting gasses from inside the cylinder to the port in the head. Also, superchargers are belt driven, so they run off the crankshaft, not the "intake".
quote:[HR][/HR]superchargers run off the intake portion of the engine
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[HR][/HR]
Wow, we've got some real rocket science going on here. Let me make it real easy:
One intake port per cylinder.
One exhaust port per cylinder.
All the valves do is provide a means for getting gasses from inside the cylinder to the port in the head. Also, superchargers are belt driven, so they run off the crankshaft, not the "intake".
Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (hoser125)
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quote:[HR][/HR]Thats why you see super chargers on alot of trucks and 4WD vehicles.
Hope this info helps[HR][/HR]
I like the turbo in my truck...i am glad it didnt come with a supercharger. I can stand on the break at the line and boost up to 12psi and dump the brake and have no wheel spin.
Hope this info helps[HR][/HR]
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Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (hoser125)
Because superchargers are driven off the crankshaft, the bigger the supercharger is, or the more aggressively you gear the pullies to increase blower RPM, the more drag you get on the crankshaft. It's like having your A/C on - it saps away power. The bigger the blower, the greater the loss. Also, many supercharged cars are non-intercooled, thus limiting their boost to 6 or 8psi in order to prevent detonation. There is nothing to say that superchargers are exclusively for getting more low end torque. In fact, I'm sure there's a few supercharged VR6 owners on this board that will quite happily demonstrate that they have tons of high end horsepower too.
A turbo on the other hand is just a big pair of fans. One which is driven by exhaust gasses, one which pressurizes intake gasses. Because it is not driven by the crankshaft and uses the "free" horsepower from the exhuast, there is very little loss involved with a turbo. It will decrease power very slightly because it presents a big restriction to the exhaust, but it's much less than the loss a supercharger causes. Turbos do, however have specific limits. This is most clearly seen with the stock turbo on the 1.8T. If turbos really did have infinite flow to infinite RPM as you said, then we should see them making peak horsepower at 7000+ rpm. However, most chipped cars make peak power as early as 5000 or 5500rpm. This is because the turbo just plain runs out of the ability to flow any more air than that. In order to flow more air, you need a bigger turbo. Bigger turbos TAKE more flow (exhaust, based on RPM) in order to make more flow, so it's a give and take between how quickly you want to make boost versus how much peak power you want to make.
quote:[HR][/HR]The benifit of the turbo over the SC, is the fact that smaller Cubic Centimeter engines can rev higher, a super charger can only spin a a pre determined speed (pulley size) therefore it quits working at a certain RPM.
SC's are for low end right off the line power, not for top speed. a turbo if tuned right will keep putting out until the motor just can't turn any faster.[HR][/HR]
Umm... ok, a few points of clarification here. Well, more like, uh, nevermind. How about I explain a supercharger because you're not even in the ballpark here. Superchargers can be used on engines of any displacement. You'll see them on 1.6 liter Hondas as well as 5.7 liter Camaros and 12-liter Alcohol dragsters. Second, it's belt driven by the crankshaft, and thus spins faster as the engine spins faster. With a roots style (Eaton) supercharger, this means it will make a constant amount of boost across pretty much the entire powerband. If it's designed for 6psi, it will make 6psi of boost everywhere from 2000 - 2500rpm or so up to whatever the engine revs to. If it's a centrifugal supercharger (Vortec) then it's like the compressor housing of a turbo. That style of blower actually makes MORE boost as engine speed increases. The higher you rev the more boost you make. The true advantage of a supercharger is the fact it's always spinning when the engine is spinning, and thus has virtually zero lag before making full boost. Neither roots nor centrifugal blowers "stop working" at any RPM.SC's are for low end right off the line power, not for top speed. a turbo if tuned right will keep putting out until the motor just can't turn any faster.[HR][/HR]
Because superchargers are driven off the crankshaft, the bigger the supercharger is, or the more aggressively you gear the pullies to increase blower RPM, the more drag you get on the crankshaft. It's like having your A/C on - it saps away power. The bigger the blower, the greater the loss. Also, many supercharged cars are non-intercooled, thus limiting their boost to 6 or 8psi in order to prevent detonation. There is nothing to say that superchargers are exclusively for getting more low end torque. In fact, I'm sure there's a few supercharged VR6 owners on this board that will quite happily demonstrate that they have tons of high end horsepower too.
A turbo on the other hand is just a big pair of fans. One which is driven by exhaust gasses, one which pressurizes intake gasses. Because it is not driven by the crankshaft and uses the "free" horsepower from the exhuast, there is very little loss involved with a turbo. It will decrease power very slightly because it presents a big restriction to the exhaust, but it's much less than the loss a supercharger causes. Turbos do, however have specific limits. This is most clearly seen with the stock turbo on the 1.8T. If turbos really did have infinite flow to infinite RPM as you said, then we should see them making peak horsepower at 7000+ rpm. However, most chipped cars make peak power as early as 5000 or 5500rpm. This is because the turbo just plain runs out of the ability to flow any more air than that. In order to flow more air, you need a bigger turbo. Bigger turbos TAKE more flow (exhaust, based on RPM) in order to make more flow, so it's a give and take between how quickly you want to make boost versus how much peak power you want to make.
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Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (Bundaho)
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quote:[HR][/HR]I like the turbo in my truck...i am glad it didnt come with a supercharger. I can stand on the break at the line and boost up to 12psi and dump the brake and have no wheel spin.
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[HR][/HR]
Pfftt! Cheater. AWD in a turbo truck with, what, a 3.8 liter engine? That's just not fair. Go pick on some Corvettes or Vipers or something.
Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (AZGolf)
quote:[HR][/HR]Pfftt! Cheater. AWD in a turbo truck with, what, a 3.8 liter engine? That's just not fair. Go pick on some Corvettes or Vipers or something.
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[HR][/HR]
Its a 4.3L 6cyl. I dont know about picking on corvettes or vipers yet. Its still stock. But anything from a stop till about 50mph usually gets it pretty bad. After that i can be run down. Damn truck shifts at 4000rpms. Nothing a few mods cannot fix though.
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Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (AZGolf)
actually correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't they turbo'd 4.3's? i didn't think they had 4 wheel drive either...
actually correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't they turbo'd 4.3's? i didn't think they had 4 wheel drive either...
Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (rub-a-vee-dub)
quote:[HR][/HR]actually correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't they turbo'd 4.3's? i didn't think they had 4 wheel drive either...[HR][/HR]
You are right they are a turbo 4.3, and yes they didnt have 4 wheel drive....its all wheel drive.Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (Bundaho)
a nice fat autorotor (lysholm) would be wicked on the 1.8T. However you'd need hotter cams for sure. You'd lose a bit of (peak) torque, however i would imagine your peak torque in the 210ft/lb range would extend from 2000 to 6000 rpm's, and your peak hp would be around 7k (again with cams).
8v'ers are making 180-190whp on 8:1 compression, you'd think the improved 1.8T would make tons more
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a nice fat autorotor (lysholm) would be wicked on the 1.8T. However you'd need hotter cams for sure. You'd lose a bit of (peak) torque, however i would imagine your peak torque in the 210ft/lb range would extend from 2000 to 6000 rpm's, and your peak hp would be around 7k (again with cams).
8v'ers are making 180-190whp on 8:1 compression, you'd think the improved 1.8T would make tons more
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Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (mrkrad)
so how about turbo + supercharged
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http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
There was a car called "March Super turbo" ( JDM) 15 years ago made by NISSAN
1.0litre, 110hp
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[Modified by SailexGti.hk, 9:11 AM 2-9-2002]
so how about turbo + supercharged
There was a car called "March Super turbo" ( JDM) 15 years ago made by NISSAN
1.0litre, 110hp
[Modified by SailexGti.hk, 9:11 AM 2-9-2002]
Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (SailexGti.hk)
I know bahnbrenner has a t3/t4 + Lysholm blown g60 with dual (air-air) and (air-water) intercooling in their barn.
The Twincharged MR2's were a neat thing along time ago.
Similar to twin-turbo motors, you get the low end (2000 rpm) full torque from the blower, then once the turbo kicks in at 4000rpm all hell breaks loose. Expensive, and quirky, but hell yeah..
I'd like to see the new hybrid turbo's like garrett electrical motor turbo that can spool without exhaust gases. That seems like a next natural step in the right direction. Blowers are hella expensive
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compared to turbos.
I know bahnbrenner has a t3/t4 + Lysholm blown g60 with dual (air-air) and (air-water) intercooling in their barn.
The Twincharged MR2's were a neat thing along time ago.
Similar to twin-turbo motors, you get the low end (2000 rpm) full torque from the blower, then once the turbo kicks in at 4000rpm all hell breaks loose. Expensive, and quirky, but hell yeah..
I'd like to see the new hybrid turbo's like garrett electrical motor turbo that can spool without exhaust gases. That seems like a next natural step in the right direction. Blowers are hella expensive
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Re: 20v = 5v/cylinder, then why can't... (SailexGti.hk)
My car has a 1.0litre turbo engine, with 112hp stock. Bust it's a 00 car not a car made 15 years ago
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Check out this at VW Brazil's site.
And in october VW-BR is gonna release the 1.0 Turbo engine with 120hp...
http://www.volkswagen.com.br/pager.phtml?id=6&par=51&inn=0
[Modified by GOL, 8:39 PM 2-9-2002]
quote:[HR][/HR]so how about turbo + supercharged
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http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
There was a car called "March Super turbo" ( JDM) 15 years ago made by NISSAN
1.0litre, 110hp
![]()
[Modified by SailexGti.hk, 9:11 AM 2-9-2002][HR][/HR]
There was a car called "March Super turbo" ( JDM) 15 years ago made by NISSAN
1.0litre, 110hp
[Modified by SailexGti.hk, 9:11 AM 2-9-2002][HR][/HR]
My car has a 1.0litre turbo engine, with 112hp stock. Bust it's a 00 car not a car made 15 years ago
Check out this at VW Brazil's site.
And in october VW-BR is gonna release the 1.0 Turbo engine with 120hp...
http://www.volkswagen.com.br/pager.phtml?id=6&par=51&inn=0
[Modified by GOL, 8:39 PM 2-9-2002]
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