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3,000 mile oil change is History

17K views 89 replies 56 participants last post by  ElixXxeR 
#1 · (Edited)
“There was a time when the 3,000 miles was a good guideline,” said Philip Reed, senior consumer advice editor for the car site Edmunds.com. “But it’s no longer true for any car bought in the last seven or eight years.
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I STILL remember learning from my father how to carefully remove a dipstick to check the oil level in our cars. It was drilled into me — along with turning off the lights when you left a room and clearing the plates off the table after dinner — that oil needs to be changed every 3,000 miles or so.

I’m not sure what I thought would happen if I didn’t, but I vaguely imagined an unlubricated engine grinding to a halt.

Childhood habits are hard to undo, and that’s often good. To this day, I hate seeing an empty room with the lights on.

But sometimes, we need to throw aside our parents’ good advice. In March, for example, I wrote about how we should relearn the dishwasher and laundry soap habits we inherited from our mothers.

Add frequent oil-changing to that list.

“There was a time when the 3,000 miles was a good guideline,” said Philip Reed, senior consumer advice editor for the car site Edmunds.com. “But it’s no longer true for any car bought in the last seven or eight years.”

Oil chemistry and engine technology have improved to the point that most cars can go several thousand more miles before changing the oil, Mr. Reed said. A better average, he said, would be 7,500 between oil changes, and sometimes up to 10,000 miles or more.

The California Integrated Waste Management Board ran public service announcements for several years about “the 3,000-mile myth,” urging drivers to wait longer between oil changes. Although the information is a few years old, the board has a list of cars on its Web site and how often they need oil changes. The concern is not only the cost to drivers, but the environmental impact of throwing away good oil, said Mark Oldfield, a recycling specialist for the agency.







My 9400 oil change report. No break in period.
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#2 ·
That's good to know. Some cars' engines actually pack quite a bit of oil that would make for a whole mess of unnecessary waste if changed early for no good reason.

Speaking of which, the '02 A6 4.2's V8 sports an oil capacity of no less than 8 quarts and an Audi recommended oil change interval of 10,000 miles. :eek:
 
#3 ·
My '03 Si had a 10k interval, or 5k under severe conditions. I drove it spiritedly so I split the difference and changed it every 7500 miles. It never burned oil or had any engine-related problems despite constant VTAK deployment and several trips to the redline each day.

Same with the Sonata. It calls for changes every 7500 miles, or every 3750 under severe conditions. I split the difference since it mostly sees city driving in hot temperatures.
 
#5 ·
This is news? People on the interwebs were saying the 3000 mile OCI was outdated 10 years ago.

BITOG is great, by the way.
 
#8 ·
Audi Longlife service interval can run up to 18K, depending on the usage pattern of the vehicle. My 99 A8 used to run at that all the time. My A6 wasn't far off either, tending to be about 15K.
 
#9 ·
Some of the old folks who bring there cars to my work still don't get it. Ford has recommended 5000 mile oil changes for years and now bringing that to 7500-10000miles depending on the car. The new Ford superduty tells you when it needs an oil change depending on how you drive the truck (it knows how hard your working it ) My 1990 Subaru manual states 4000miles :beer:
 
#10 ·
Sorry but no.. it depends heavily on the car. A honda will go 8k miles on conventional oil no problem.. they are easy on oil. My engine destroys oil, even heavy duty engine oil like Rotella T Synthetic 5w40.. in 5000 miles it is completely destroyed...

Now newer Volkswagens with turbo direct injection engines? Yes your oil analysis will say it looks fine, but your engine won't agree.. every one of these engines I've seen was sludged if the owner ran the recommended interval. Some engines are just WAY tougher on oil than other.
 
#31 ·
Now newer Volkswagens with turbo direct injection engines? Yes your oil analysis will say it looks fine, but your engine won't agree.. every one of these engines I've seen was sludged if the owner ran the recommended interval. Some engines are just WAY tougher on oil than other.
BS. There were some 1.8T that had sludging issues (in particular the Passat) because the owners, or even worse, sometimes the service places did not use the specified synthetic oil. Yes, you cannot do 15,000 mile service intervals on conventional oil in a turbo car - that would be silly.

Again, all this is not news. Cars have run on 7,500 to 15,000 mile oil changes for 15 to 20 years in Europe, and do just fine. I have never used 3,000 mile oil change intervals in my many decades of driving, with many cars driven between ~70,000 and 150,000 or from new to ~150,000 or to almost 200,000 miles - all had clean engines that ran absolutely fine with zero problems.

I always do (usually around 600 miles). Here is what you will find in your oil after break-in. This is just a one of the dozens metal shavings. Do you really want it to float in your engine for a year (10K miles)? [picture of metal flake]
That won't happen in most modern engines because of their tight design specifications, and also because most (e.g., all VWs) are run-in at factory, after which the oil is completely drained and replaced. And for the remainder: that's what the oil filter is for.

I agree with those who say that if you are paranoid, change the oil filter after the first 3,000 or 5,000 miles, and call it a day.

Of course, every owner's manual has a section about shortened service intervals for severe driving conditions. But that won't apply to 95% of the population.
 
#12 ·
My motorcycle says every 2500 miles. That's fine with me though since it's an easy oil change for me to do myself, unlike my car :mad:
 
#14 ·
^This.. it is really actually retarded to wait for your first oil change, when your engine is breaking in ...it "shaves" off SO much metal & aluminum. I always do the first one at 1000 miles, then 3k miles later when the car has 4k... and THEN proceed to extend it..
 
#36 ·
In 1970, machining tolerances were measured in thousandths of an inch, RMS roughness of the honed cylinder was also measured in thousandths, and your rings did the final machining of the cylinder walls.

For the past ten years, we've been machining to sub-micron tolerance, honing to sub-micron tolerance, and there's almost no metal left for the rings to take off.

Hell, I pulled a 1981 EN out of a Rabbit with 160K miles on it that still had the original honing marks on the walls. That can only happen when the cylinder is machined to concentricity and roughness in the first place. Your dad's Slant 6 wasn't. Anything (I do mean anything) bored after 1990 is. No break-in oil required as there is nothing left to break-in any more.
 
#15 ·
I know a kid that's a mechanic and this topic has come up a few times with us. I always tell him changing it at 3,000 is just a complete waste of time and money but he has trouble trusting that modern synthetics can last over twice as long. I don't understand why it's so hard to grasp for some people though. Everything else in the car continues to be developed and last longer, why is it odd that oil companies would do the same?
 
#18 · (Edited)
Depends on the car.
Subaru's turbo dino oil interval is still 3750 or something. Reduced after oil issues.

5000+ is well in the range of decent syn though unless you're doing trackdays or something. In LGT I do about 5000. My UOA tell me I could do a bit more, but I do a lot of AXes and the turbo motors have some oil issues, so I'd rather be safe. Works out to every 6 mos or so.

I'm still not sure I trust OCIs over 10k. At least without a UOA. Even 10k looks a bit much in the VW. Maybe it will get better after the first 10k, but still.
 
#23 ·
Those recommended oil changes are just... well, guidelines. If you only go to the shops and back, you still need to change your oil more often. Obviously, most manufacturers are greedy and want people to change their cars more often, hence the ridiculous oil change intervals, like 15,000 or more.

If you are planning to keep your car for 5-10 years, keep your fluids fresh... it's a cheap insurance.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Obviously, most manufacturers are greedy and want people to change their cars more often, hence the ridiculous oil change intervals, like 15,000 or more.
I agreed with you until this. i'm sorry but that's just silly. It's so they can brag about low maintenance costs and less time in the shop, and, well, modern lubricants can take it.
 
#28 ·
From what I've seen and learned from working in a shop from a bit after going to school for auto tech there is some truth to long oil change intervals and some flawed logic. So the reasoning with long intervals here is that lubricant technology has advanced pretty far since the old days and new synthetic oils can handle being in the engine a lot longer before needing to be changed, which is pretty much true. What hasn't advanced nearly as far as the oil quality is the oil filter, it's still just pleated paper that grabs the dirt and nastiness out of the oil. Even though the additives in your oil don't break down nearly as quickly the oil still gets dirty and although tolerances have gotten much tighter since the old days of engine building they are by no means clean. Maybe the filter isn't chock full of crap by 3,000 miles anymore because engines have gotten a lot tighter but from everything I've seen the filters just can't last as long as the oil before being spent.

So if you go have your oil analyzed at 7,500 miles it will still show a good amount of life left in it but take a look at your filter after that long, I can almost guarantee you it will be black and thick. Feel the oil too after waiting that long, does it feel thin and slippery like a freshly opened bottle of pure synthetic? Almost definitely not, it'll feel thick and almost gritty. Not something I still want "protecting" my engine just because some high tech additives haven't been burned up yet.
 
#38 ·
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I am old enough to know that the "3,000" oil change was a Jiffy Lube-created
phenomenon. NO ONE changed their oil that frequently, unless they owned
an air-cooled VW, in which case they might. The commonly acceptable
interval was 5,000 miles, and I don't remember a single owner's manual,
mechanic, or other industry expert saying otherwise prior to the advent
of the Jiffy Lube-created, profit-only motive-based advertising campaign,
the bandwagon of which which all of the other oil-changing interests jumped
onto once it became clear that the public was foolishly buying the hype.
 
#40 ·
My 4Runner calls for it every 5k and I generally go a bit longer, the old oil is barely dark when I drain it and the 4.7 is notoriously easy on oil (via the bobistheoilguy forums).

It gets driven a lot though, 25k+ a year, much of of rural highway, very little stop and go, so, despite the Vermont winters, definitely not "sever service."

fwiw, my '08 Accord "told" you when it was necessary and it was always right around 8k miles.
 
#41 ·
That the filter goes first would be my main concern. But honestly I've never opened up a filter after 3, or 5, 10 K miles to see how clogged the paper is.

The NA Subaru 2.5 says 3750 miles for "heavy" use. But honestly I think if you live in in a moderately populated area with plenty of lights, stop signs, stop and go traffic, drive throughs, and the like - it's heavy use.

The #1 & 2 reasons of course to change as per the manual is to not void your warranty and have a paper trail for optimal resale.
 
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