3.2 liter VR6 information...

4387 Views 27 Replies 16 Participants Last post by DwightLooi, Jan 7, 2002

DwightLooi

Discussion Starter · Nov 27, 2001

Does anyone have any info on:-
1. Is the upcoming 3.2 VR have an iron block like the 2.8 24v VR6 or is it all aluminium like the W8 and W12 engines.
2. Does anyone know or have some reliable forecast as to the bore and stroke on these? Traditionally, VW and Audi engines have either 81 or 82.5 mm bores, and either 86.4, 90.2 or 92.8 mm stroke. This is the 4.0 W8 and 6.0 W12 engines started a n all new 84mm bore trend. Hence, if the 3.2 has a 84mm bore it justy may very well be based on chopping up the W series engines instead on enlarging the grand old 2.8 iron block.
Thanks!

[Modified by DwightLooi, 6:00 PM 11-27-2001]

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

VR6guy

· #2 · Nov 27, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (DwightLooi)

If you're talking about the 3.2L as found in the Beetle RSi, the block is iron and head aluminium as all other VR6s to date. Exact bore and stroke numbers I do not know but I do know that both bore and stroke are up from a regular 2.8L motor.
One interesting thing I've been pondering lately is that 225hp number in the $80,000 Beetle RSi. It has been heavily reported that some variant of this engine will be found in the entry-level model of the upcoming Porsche Cayenne SUV. The curious thing is that I have seen consistent reports of a 240hp power figure for this model. That power number certainly seems reasonable as even pedestrain mid-size sport utes boast at least 220+ hp six cylinder engines. It certainly seems reasonable that Porsche would strive to endow even its entry-level model with a bit more grunt that you "average" Mom n' Pop SUV. My question is what magic has Porsche done to this engine that VW failed to do on an $80,000 AWD limited-production showpeice? Just makes me wonder.... Anyone have thoughts/opinions or better yet solid info?

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Giancarlo

· #3 · Nov 28, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (VR6guy)

I definetly think that the new 3.2lt. VR6 will be all aluminum, and remember that the bettle never produces the same hp as other models due to resticted exhaust.
There is also the rumor of a turbo VR6 with close to 300hp for audi use , S3 and TT, so this could also be posible for the porsche. I heard rumors about porsche turboed a VR6 a long time ago and that since they couldn't get enough out of it they didn't use it.
What's the deal between porsche and vw audi group, are they partners in some way or just old friends.

DGMVW

· #4 · Nov 28, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (Giancarlo)

quote:[HR][/HR]
What's the deal between porsche and vw audi group, are they partners in some way or just old friends.
[HR][/HR]

Haven't you ever heard of Ferdinand Porsche??? He and Hitler started VW in the 40's and his son started making Porsche's while he was in Jail in Paris after WWII. He went to jail for war crimes (producing vehicles). Anyway Porsche used to be under the VW auto group. Remember the Porsche 914? That thing was pretty much a VW. In the 60's and 70's they shared tons of parts, like audi and vw. They were eventually spun out of the group (I think). Anyway, long heritage together.

DwightLooi

Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 28, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (Giancarlo)

It is often said that the W8 and W12 engines are two VR4 or VR6s mated at the crank. The truth is other than the 15 deg angle in their 4 or 6 cylinder banks, they are not in anyway similar. The W8 and W12 both sport 84mm cylinders with 90ish strokes. The blocks are all alumium and of considerably different design; for example the timing chains are on the transmission side and the spool style varaible timing gear on the cam sprockets are more toyota style than the traditional Variocam shifting tensioner style found on Audis, VW and Porsches.
With the fact that both the W8 and the W12 are aluminium. The fact that the 3.0 30v 90 deg V6 in the '02 Audis are aluminium. And the some what low weight figures forescasted for the MkV Golf/Jetta platform. I must say that my suspicions indeed agree with yours as to the block material of the 3.2 engine.
But... well, I guess we'll just have to see. For now, guesses are still just that; guesses.

dmkozak

· #6 · Nov 28, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (DGMVW)

quote:[HR][/HR]
Haven't you ever heard of Ferdinand Porsche??? He and Hitler started VW in the 40's and his son started making Porsche's while he was in Jail in Paris after WWII. He went to jail for war crimes (producing vehicles). Anyway Porsche used to be under the VW auto group. Remember the Porsche 914? That thing was pretty much a VW. In the 60's and 70's they shared tons of parts, like audi and vw. They were eventually spun out of the group (I think). Anyway, long heritage together.[HR][/HR]

Close, but oh so many errors and mistakes in this post. If you really want to know the history of Porsche and VW read any of the books available.

DGMVW

· #7 · Nov 28, 2001

Sorry, just didn't want to go into any great length. Please correct me. I think that in a round about way it is accurate. They did a piece on Ferdinand earlier this month on the History channel. It was his idea to start VW and worked as an engineer for many car makers for a long time and with Hitler he was able to start VW, then after the war bla bla bla...just like I said. Please correct me. Porsche and VW did share many parts. One of my ex-girlfriends was stationed in Germany in the 70's and had a Porsche and he used to tell me how he used to fix it with VW parts because they were the same and half the price. Just speaking from personal experience.
Sorry to get off the topic here.

Giancarlo

· #8 · Nov 28, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (DGMVW)

My question was if they had stock in comun (VW owning a little of prshce of the other way around) or if it was just a long term partners, history kind of thing.
Will the 3.2 VR6 be the same design as the current VR6 or will it be something more like half of a W12?

DwightLooi

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 29, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (Giancarlo)

My question exactly... too!

VR6JettaFUN

· #10 · Nov 29, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (DwightLooi)

Will this particular VR6 be made available for a VW in the U.S.? If so, when can I get my hands on one???

[Modified by VR6JettaFUN, 7:49 AM 11-29-2001]

DwightLooi

Discussion Starter · #11 · Nov 29, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (VR6JettaFUN)

It looks like you'll have to wait for the VW-Porsche SUV (Colorado?), or wait longer still for the Golf-Jetta MkV. The former probably as a 2003 model (Sep 2002?) and is made for America so the US will get it before or as soon as everywhere else. The latter will come as a 2004 probably in europe first (Sep 2003?) then one year later to the US-Canadian market (Sep 2004?). Lastly, if you live in Europe, the engine will form the base engine for the D1 flagship sedan. In the US, however, the D1 will only get two engine choices; the 4.0 W8 or the 6.0 W12 (which doesn't include the 3.2 VR6 or any one the diesels).

vwtechnician

· #12 · Nov 30, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (DwightLooi)

Man I love all the experts here.
The crank that VW is using for the 3.2 is the crank that Projektzwo had designed for there 3.2l kit for the VR6. VW bought the rights to the crank from them. So now they have the crank for the use in there 3.2l engine. The engine is based on the cast iron block from the current production engine. If I had the time I would give a very detailed history of the relationship between Hitler and Porsche. I probably have more information on the subject than the library. Includin some items from the actual groundbreaking of the VW factory in 1938.

Giancarlo

· #13 · Nov 30, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (vwtechnician)

So is this a confirmation that the 3.2 lt VR6 in the next generation golf/jetta will be iron block? will it have variable timing?

DwightLooi

Discussion Starter · #14 · Nov 30, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (Giancarlo)

I believe even the 2.8 24-valver that is currently in european service, and coming to the US in March '02 (sort of as a 2002.5 intro), has variable intake cam timing. The system is of the hydraulically operated vane and spool type (ala VVT-i) mounted within the intake cam sprocket. Both intake and exhaust cams are roller-chain driven. Besides helping flatten the torque curve, it also allows enough control of the overlap such as to institude natural exhaust and intake intermixing when needed. This makes an EGR system unnecessary and still make LEV or ULEV status.
It is unbelievably unlikely that VW will take a retrograde step back to fixed valve timing with an EGR system. The question is whether the 3.2 24-valver will have this alone or have variable timing on both cams.
Another thing that is in doubt is whether the 3.2 will have the dual stage intake runner assembly. This helps the 2.8-24 achieve a 3200 rpm torque peak. With 0.4 liter more displacement -- hence more torque overall -- it'll be really interesting to see if the 3.2-24 will ditch the variable intake and adopt short, trumpeted, independent velocity stacks.

[Modified by DwightLooi, 12:20 PM 11-30-2001]

[Modified by DwightLooi, 12:22 PM 11-30-2001]

[Modified by DwightLooi, 12:26 PM 11-30-2001]

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joeZX6

· #15 · Dec 1, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (DwightLooi)

according to jamie (the owner of this website) the 3.2liter vr6 has a aluminum head and a cast iron block

Giancarlo

· #16 · Dec 1, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (joeZX6)

The current version of the 3.2 VR6 24V like in the Beetle RSi is iron block, but will this be the version that goes into the MKV or will it get an aluminum block when this engine is used to replace the 2.8 24V VR6, not just put into special models like the RSi.

rastta

· #17 · Dec 5, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (Giancarlo)

One of the reasons there are so many questions is that the 3.2L is still in the development phases. The current one in the NB RSi is one of the initial variants so it's low on hp.
The 3.2L has been shown in several hp configurations - 231hp in the MicroBus, 225hp and 250hp in SEAT's and like everyone has said - 240hp in the Porsche.
Look for the 3.2L to be in the 230-240hp range when it hit's the US. Originally it was planned for the new B6 Passat - but with the changing of the guard - who know what it will be in first.
VW will be moving to an all aluminum VR6 engine in the future - but no one knows when that will happen. I'd expect it for the MKV platforms.

slammedG60

· #18 · Dec 6, 2001

with the good ol' 2.8 pullin 500hp when insanely tuned, i can't wait to throw a 3.2 in my C!

do they have any north american release dates yet? estimated cost?

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NC-GTI

· #19 · Dec 7, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (DwightLooi)

The new 24V VR6 is aluminum. I assume the 3.2 version will be too

DwightLooi

Discussion Starter · #20 · Dec 11, 2001

Re: 3.2 liter VR6 information... (NC-GTI)

If by "the new 24v VR6" you mean the 2.8 24v VR6 that is going into the 2002.5 Golf/Jetta family, you are in error. That is an iron block engine; basically its the same old VR6 block of the current 12v engine with a new cylinder head, intake assembly and engine management. It is a product of VW-Audi's scheme for getting the most engine improvement for the least R&D and tooling buck. An analogy can be drawn with the 20v 1.8T which is basically the 1.8 liter iron block from the 1986-1989 8v & 16v engines with a sparkling new 20v head.

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