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Info on 208/209 :

Blocks 208 & 209 should be as close as possible to 0°, the spread should not exceed 3°. The absolute wear limit is 8° spread whether + or minus. If the spread is well above 3° but under the limit, then chain & guide replacement should be considered.

Jack over at the Ross-Tech site says this about chains:

"A quick review of locking the cams and seeing how far past 5MM of the TDC mark on the harmonic will indicate a stretch as per the RTFB."
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Info on 208/209 :

Blocks 208 & 209 should be as close as possible to 0°, the spread should not exceed 3°. The absolute wear limit is 8° spread whether + or minus. If the spread is well above 3° but under the limit, then chain & guide replacement should be considered.

Jack over at the Ross-Tech site says this about chains:

"A quick review of locking the cams and seeing how far past 5MM of the TDC mark on the harmonic will indicate a stretch as per the RTFB."
Good info, I’m going to check my Uber low mile 2017 Touareg 3.6 in my corrado
 

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Sounds plausible, I haven’t heard of this happening but anything is possible.

Well here's my situation. I picked up an 07 touareg with broken upper timing chain, and some bent valves. 3.6 liter built in 06. Not long after tearing into it, it was easy to tell that somebody else had been there not long before me. Oil pump felt good, replaced intake variable valve cam gear, hp fuel pump cam gear, all guides both chains and adjusters. (Even though the chain set looked almost new and had recently been replaced). Cranked over by hand fine. Started and ran good, but lots of chain noise and an awful clack every 5 seconds or so... I started it ran it shut it down etc for about oh maybe 2 minutes off and on before whatever was causing the noise made the chain jump a tooth and threw the timing off. I haven't cranked it since because I really don't want to break the chain and bend some more valves. About ready to find a junkyard engine for that thing unless somebody can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance. -Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Sounds plausible, I haven’t heard of this happening but anything is possible.

Well here's my situation. I picked up an 07 touareg with broken upper timing chain, and some bent valves. 3.6 liter built in 06. Not long after tearing into it, it was easy to tell that somebody else had been there not long before me. Oil pump felt good, replaced intake variable valve cam gear, hp fuel pump cam gear, all guides both chains and adjusters. (Even though the chain set looked almost new and had recently been replaced). Cranked over by hand fine. Started and ran good, but lots of chain noise and an awful clack every 5 seconds or so... I started it ran it shut it down etc for about oh maybe 2 minutes off and on before whatever was causing the noise made the chain jump a tooth and threw the timing off. I haven't cranked it since because I really don't want to break the chain and bend some more valves. About ready to find a junkyard engine for that thing unless somebody can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance. -Dave
Get a low mile 3.6 from the junkyard. My buddy got a 2012 forged crank 3.6 for $900 with 29k miles. It’s not worth doing all the work to replace valves/timing parts with there being so many 3.6s in junkyards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
In follow up to the timing variance. I checked both my 68k mile 2010 CC and my 2017 3.6 with about 20k miles in my corrado and I now don’t believe the need to pay attention to the block 208/209 guidance that has been talked about. It’s worth keeping an eye on block 208/209 but not gospel most replace info.

My 68k mile CC:



My 2017 20k mile 3.6:
 

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In follow up to the timing variance. I checked both my 68k mile 2010 CC and my 2017 3.6 with about 20k miles in my corrado and I now don’t believe the need to pay attention to the block 208/209 guidance that has been talked about. It’s worth keeping an eye on block 208/209 but not gospel most replace info.

My 68k mile CC:



My 2017 20k mile 3.6:
Thanks for sharing that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a primary source for the guidelines that people refer to regarding blocks 208 & 209, just lots of second hand repetition.
 

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Thanks for sharing that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a primary source for the guidelines that people refer to regarding blocks 208 & 209, just lots of second hand repetition.
It relates back to the 2.8 & 3.2 VRs. I don't think there has ever been any direct correlation to the 3.6L
 

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MVB 208 and 209 for timing correlation issues on 3.6 liter VR6 FSI motors.

Thanks for sharing that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a primary source for the guidelines that people refer to regarding blocks 208 & 209, just lots of second hand repetition.
The primary source is a gospel type VW issued tech tip article in the very first post specifically directed at the 3.6 motor and cars and nothing else. I'm sure the numbers are supposed to be checked engine warm and accelerated past 3200 RPM 2-4 times in park or neutral from idle with all electrical consumers switched off before checking. I know it doesn't say that but it's what I would do after so many years working with VW to make sure I was getting the most accurate measurement possible. Maybe even a fresh oil change to add icing and know I have a good baseline. Additionally I would like to add the tech tip only directs a technician to these MVB's for excessive fuel pressure issues so if you do not have high fuel pressure faults in correlation with parameters listed in the Tech Tip it might suggest the high pressure fuel pump is not out of time therefore excessive wear has not occurred. The Tech Tip also only applies to cars prior the 2011 engine updates so it's possible that 2011 and newer engines have different tolerance values for these MVB's and this Tech Tip no longer applies to 2011 and later cars. Without more data there is no way of knowing how valuable MVB 208 and 209 are for measuring timing chain stretch but the Tech Tip does at least give us a guide for something we can explore more.

VW Tech Tip [01-16-05]
 

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Ok so I'm not putting together a step by step timing chain job thread because my projects usually don't follow the same steps as people who need to just fix their timing. Also doing the timing on a 3.6 is complicated job that requires you to separate the engine from the transmission. Some people may chose to pull the engine and transmission while others may prefer to just pull the transmission when touareg people might want to pull the engine. Its really a slippery slope and what needs to be done. Most importantly I want people to understand the process of re-timing the engine. where to get parts and the tools necessary.

The beauty of the 3.6 is that it has remained relatively unchanged since being introduced in 2006. I'm running a 2016 touareg engine on 2006 management.


List of vehicles this might pertain to:
Potential USA 3.6 VR6 Donors
Touareg 2007+
Passat 2006+
CC 2009-2017
Porsche Cayenne 2006+
Audi Q7 2007-2010
Atlas 2018+

Information Links
It should be noted that the Facebook page "VW 2.8 | 2.9 | 3.0 | 3.2 | 3.6 VR6 Performance Group" is useful...sometimes.
Link for looking up VW/Audi Part numbers up: Volkswagen Parts catalog - ETKA Online, Volkswagen EUROPA, original Catalog Volkswagen EUROPA or Search for parts. Buying auto parts around the world. Auto parts catalogs.
jddaigle's B6 3.6 & 4motion Resource Thread
Nater's Head Gasket R&R and DIY 3.6L BLV 2008 Passat Head Gasket R&R and DIY 3.6L BLV 2008 Passat
Nater's 3.6 engine saga: 3.6L VR6 - I spun a bearing...Plus eventual engine...!)

Technical Guides and Manuals

Timing Chain Alignment Procedure for 2008+ engines only difference for 2006-2007 engines is the hpfp alignment tool.

This website has an excellent reference including special tools required, locations of timing marks, and torque values but it has so many pop ups and other crap I HATE IT
Self Study Program for VR6 FSI Engines 2006-2007
Self Study Program for VR6 FSI Engines 2008 looks the same until page 19
2006 Passat Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
2007-2008 Passat Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
2009-2010 CC Quick Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
2011-2012 CC Quick Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
2007-2010 Touareg Quick Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
How to remove the 2piece intake manifold
How to remove the 1piece intake manifold


How can you tell if you need chains/guides/sprockets
Maybe you have a fuel pump check engine light code, a lot of times people will swap high pressure fuel pump, sensors, fuel pump module when it’s really just a timing wear issue.

So check vagcom measuring blocks 208 & 209. If out more than +/- 8* you need to pull the engine and or transmission and replace the chains & guides and should change sprockets and even the hpfp sprocket (it suffers wear on the lobe

Here is what Ross-tech says to check: 17433/P1025/004133 - Ross-Tech Wiki


P1025 - Fuel Pressure Regulation Valve (N276): Mechanical Failure
Possible Symptoms
Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
High pitched whining noise from engine when idling.
ECM may also have stored in memory, P0088 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure: Too High.
Possible Causes
When found in 2006 to 2009 Volkswagen Passat, Passat CC and Touareg with 3.6L gasoline engines it is possible the HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump) / camshafts are out of time.

Possible Solutions
When found in 2006 to 2009 Volkswagen Passat, Passat CC and Touareg with 3.6L gasoline engines:
Check MVB group [208] and [209] with engine idling, if [8 degrees(+/-)] or more the engine is considered out of time.
NAR (North American Region) users can see VW Tech Tip [01-16-05] for exact repair details.
RoW (Rest of World) users may find TPI 2040216/1 helpful.
When found in gas models with a remote battery such as the Q7, P0088 may be stored due to voltage drop issues. TSB 2025746 applies to the NAR market.


VW Tech Tip [01-16-05]
MC-10096053-0699.pdf
Hey is it ok if I send you a message? I'm having some issues. Thought it was a timming issue so redid timming and still have same codes.
 
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