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I just finished my turbo exhaust manifold and picked up a T3 from a Saab 9000. Im also using a Audi 5000 turbo intercooler core w/ custom end tanks. I will be using stock injection w/ SDS EIC. I want to run 8-10psi. Does anyone have any problems with running multiple headgaskets? I heard to use 2 ABA (copper) gaskets and one spacer gasket between them. Will this work? Thanks in advance for the advice.
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (GTibunny16v)

quote:[HR][/HR]I just finished my turbo exhaust manifold and picked up a T3 from a Saab 9000. Im also using a Audi 5000 turbo intercooler core w/ custom end tanks. I will be using stock injection w/ SDS EIC. I want to run 8-10psi. Does anyone have any problems with running multiple headgaskets? I heard to use 2 ABA (copper) gaskets and one spacer gasket between them. Will this work? Thanks in advance for the advice.[HR][/HR]​
Killa is running a three headgasket setup you're talking about. I think his is two ABA headgaskets and one regular. Also... Oversteer is running 3 headgaskets I think, but the middle one is actually a copper shim/spacer. Oversteer in the the 11s on slicks so the setup works, I guess, huh? Maybe they'll jump in.


[Modified by blackA2gti, 1:28 PM 12-6-2001]
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (2035cc16v)

ok, i'll try the forced induction drew...
, anyway, i havent really tested my setup yet, the only time i had the car out i also jammed 3rd gear stuck, pulled nice though, i'm just finishing up my 02A transplant, should have it out this weekend since all i need is some tranny bolts that a frind of mine took for his G60jetta that we're working out.
Maybe oversteer or hardcorevw would like to add to this.
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (killa)

3 gaskets? noo i dont think anyone does that.
the stock aba gasket is NOT copper, its a multi layer stamped shett of steel.
2 of them gives you comp of around 8.5:1. FAT CHANCE having 3 of them on, and no leaking!
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (speed51133)

I agree with speed. I had two and was runnign12 psi. I worried a liitle bit about them leakin But it didn't. Three would be to low compression and you would have to spool up just to get out of the garage.
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (speed51133)

quote:[HR][/HR]3 gaskets? noo i dont think anyone does that.
the stock aba gasket is NOT copper, its a multi layer stamped shett of steel.
2 of them gives you comp of around 8.5:1. FAT CHANCE having 3 of them on, and no leaking![HR][/HR]​
Ok then... I HAVEN'T seen EITHER of the three gasket setups at WATERFEST (Oversteer) or ELIZABETH, NJ(Killa). I guess you're right...

Oversteer is somewhere in the mid to high 8s as far as compression goes and runs 12.7 on street tires and 11.9 on slicks.
How's that for performance?That's a rebuilt 2L 16v I believe. Killa is running a 2L block also I believe.
AFAIK New Dimensions with the Callaway style setup ALSO runs a sandwich setup on their 2L crossflows... that's TWO gaskets and A spacer (like Oversteer). It drops the compression from 10:1 down to 7.8:1.
Maybe either of the two people who are running the setups can jump in.
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (blackA2gti)

quote:[HR][/HR]Killa is running a three headgasket setup you're talking about. I think his is two ABA copper headgaskets and one regular. Also... Oversteer is running 3 headgaskets I think, but the middle one is actually a copper shim/spacer. Oversteer in the the 11s on slicks so the setup works, I guess, huh? Maybe they'll jump in.[HR][/HR]​
first off, your facts must be wrong. why would anyone run 2 copper gaskets and a third "regular"?? Doesnt make sence. Would you say 4 headgaskets is rediculous???
If oversteer uses 3 gaskets, i bet its not 2 stock gaskets with a copper shim. that would be absurd.
2 stock gaskets gives an aba comp of about 8.5:1, throwing in a copper shim on that setup seems silly to me.



[Modified by speed51133, 5:42 PM 12-4-2001]
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (speed51133)

>>If oversteer uses 3 gaskets, i bet its not 2 stock gaskets with a copper shim. that would be absurd.<<
Actually that's exactly what we did, we were skeptical if it was going to work,but it did.One thing I noticed in the original post was he never said what motor it was,we used it on a 2.0 16v with a 10.8:1 or 10.5 whatever the hell it is c/r we used a metal ABA gasket, then a 3mm copper shim,then another metal ABA gasket,this was all just to get the car up and going while he saved for new internals,but we haven't seen any reason to not do this again,it's just time for the car to go faster,so it's getting a built bottom end.
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (speed51133)

Don't have any experience with this, but I've heard of people running a small copper spacer sandwiched between two stock headgaskets (which is what he was asking about I think)... good for about 8:1 comp?

As for me, I think two headgaskets will do fine...
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (speed51133)

quote:[HR][/HR]first off, your facts must be wrong. why would anyone run 2 copper gaskets and a third "regular"?? Doesnt make sence. Would you say 4 headgaskets is rediculous???
If oversteer uses 3 gaskets, i bet its not 2 stock gaskets with a copper shim. that would be absurd.
2 stock gaskets gives an aba comp of about 8.5:1, throwing in a copper shim on that setup seems silly to me.[HR][/HR]​
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quote:[HR][/HR]HardcoreVW: Actually that's exactly what we did, we were skeptical if it was going to work,but it did.[HR][/HR]​

Killa... where you at so we let Speed know JUST how wrong my facts are.



[Modified by blackA2gti, 10:12 PM 12-4-2001]
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (XSiVE)

quote:[HR][/HR]umm... buy dished pistons and do it right... please?[HR][/HR]​
It's thoughts like that that keep people from doing anything,If your on a budget,there's no reason to not use gaskets/shims,Maybe on some cars with different combustion chambers this was a problem,I don't know,but I know for our applications,it works fine,and I'm speaking from personal expierience on watercooled VW motors,not what I read in a book.When your on a real budget,you have to realize it's a budget and stick to keeping it low buck,even if your talking about having the stock pistons dished,now your into a full rebuild of the motor,if the pistons come out,you have to at least get the cyls honed,your not going to want to reuse bearings,so you have to buy all new bearings,no sense in replaing all the bearings and not having the rods rebushed,it snow balls fast.I suggest if you don't have the money to build a bottom end right with forged pistons and preferably better rods,use the shim/gasket method.It's also good for peoples learning curves becasue short blocks become somewhat disposable becasue you usually don't have much invested.
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (blackA2gti)

quote:[HR][/HR]
Killa... where you at so we let Speed know JUST how wrong my facts are.
[HR][/HR]​
I spoke to Hardcorevw when i was considering my setup and decided to go with two metal ABA gaskets and a stock one sandwiched between them, no one ever said that the ABA gaskets were made of copper like you mentioned and i'm not running a 1.8 block, i run the 2.0 which has 203 or 204 more cc's depending on what u read and higher compression, that's the reason why i opted for the 3 gaskets, more cc's over the 1.8 and a higher c/r to begin with, i dont need any detonation, if that occurs, then i'm sure i'll have to go back into the drawing board.
Speed, beleive it if u want to, i could care less about what u think... and.............
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (killa)

i believe you man, i was proved wrong.
but still, 3 gaskets just boggles my mind. All the experienced engine builders i know said how bad 2 gaskets were. These were old school builders, who mainly restore old classics, so thier point of view may be different, but they are all i have to bounce things off of in "real life"(as opposed to the internet)
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (Hardcore VW)

quote:[HR][/HR]umm... buy dished pistons and do it right... please?
It's thoughts like that that keep people from doing anything,If your on a budget,there's no reason to not use gaskets/shims,Maybe on some cars with different combustion chambers this was a problem,I don't know,but I know for our applications,it works fine,and I'm speaking from personal expierience on watercooled VW motors,not what I read in a book.When your on a real budget,you have to realize it's a budget and stick to keeping it low buck,even if your talking about having the stock pistons dished,now your into a full rebuild of the motor,if the pistons come out,you have to at least get the cyls honed,your not going to want to reuse bearings,so you have to buy all new bearings,no sense in replaing all the bearings and not having the rods rebushed,it snow balls fast.I suggest if you don't have the money to build a bottom end right with forged pistons and preferably better rods,use the shim/gasket method.It's also good for peoples learning curves becasue short blocks become somewhat disposable becasue you usually don't have much invested. [HR][/HR]​
ok ill agree with the point that things can get expensive, but you have to admit, the more you shim up the head the worse off you are going to be with cam timing... ever think about that one?
unless you buy an adjustable cam gear.. and if you are buying an adjustable gear, why not get a little more agressive cam for FI.. everything snowballs, but some things are just ridiculous.. 3 GASKETS!!
thats just crazy. the compression would be lowered as to make the car so damn doggy it wouldnt be worth driving off boost.
 

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Re: 3 headgaskets for turbo (XSiVE)

>>3 GASKETS!! thats just crazy. the compression would be lowered as to make the car so damn doggy it wouldnt be worth driving off boost.<<
Compression is at 8.8:1 that's hardly low,many VW's are 8.5:1 motors and 1st generation DSM's are even lower at 7.8:1 But the car in question,http://www.sdsefi.com/features/aug01vw.htm went 11.92/114mph in a daily driven street car.Driven to the track,bolted on slicks and ran the number,it also ran 12.7/111mph on street tires. least anyone think anything about the car is doggy,their wrong,point blank.When I used the shim on my 1.8 16v I didn't use anything except the copper shim,no headgaskets,and no cam gear,that car went 12.56/110mph also a daily driven street car,I raced a 98ish Vette on the highway from 65-130mph 5 times in a row before he finally crept up slowly and gave me the thumbs up.Both cars are already doing 87+mph in the 1/8 mi.(most VW's are lucky to do that in the 1/4mi.)But hey,if someone that didn't try it says it won't work,than by all means...don't do it.
 
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