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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, about 9 months ago I bought an 81 Conv, looks fairly nice but had some problems, mainly water leakage and a crappy engine.
The end of summer comes along (and some money) so I decide to fix the car and get it going for my g/f.
So, the 1.6l engine was shot so I swapped in a rebuild 1.7 from my previous car.
Another problem I knew it had was apparently due to the water leaks and happened right before I went to look at the car when he started it, the fuel pump relay fizzled and burned (bad looking). A jumper wire was able to get the car home.
http://members.shaw.ca/a1rabbi...8.jpg (front)
http://members.shaw.ca/a1rabbi...9.jpg (back)
There was also some crappy wiring job done to the car, no idea what exactly it's doing but it's for the starter. I think it's an after market starter relay. One wire to the ground on the battery... why it's not grounded to the body I don't know. 2 wires going to the starter, one of these wires is connected to the original red/black (I think) starter wire that goes through the firewall. The other just goes right to the starter. Another wire goes up under the rain try and is fused, it then goes down to the original red/black starter cable that goes right into the firewall and I’m assuming to the fuse block, also connected to this same wire at the female spade where it connects to the relay is another wire, this wire goes to the cold start valve… wth?
After finding a bad ground that prevented it from turning over, I finally got it to turn. However it was not starting which confused me as nothing had changed but the motor, though it had been sitting for almost 2 years (the engine for 2 years, the car for almost 1 year).
So I blew my mind wondering what was wrong, I checked the static timing 3 times, changed the plug wires around many times, swapped coils and distributors a few times, etc.
Now I was getting angry, I pulled a fuel injector; number 1. Made sure it was spraying and it was (still did not check spray patterns). I tried to start it again, nothing. Then I disconnected the jumper on the fuel relay and turned it over a few times, it started up and ran PERFECT for about 2 seconds until the gas in the lines ran out.
Meanwhile a new fuel pump relay was on order, I picked it up and hoped beyond hope that it would fix the problem… nada. Normally with a relay installed and the car turned to acc. The fuel pump will pressurize the system and then shut off. It does not do that, however when I turn the engine over it does turn on the pump. If I turn it over for just 1 second and then off it will finish pressurizing.
Any insight into this problem? I’m almost 100% sure it’s messy wiring either from one of the previous owners, water or both! Though it maybe a bad fuel pump/injector, etc.
There are a few wires disconnected near the fuse block that I have no idea where they go. There is also one wire coming from the fuse panel to the engine compartment with a fused link and a female spade connector that seems to go to nothing. It’s got 12v on it and is not stock.
Here are some extra photos/questions.
http://members.shaw.ca/a1rabbi...1.jpg
On the left hand side of this picture you can see a burned out plug, anyone know what that’s for? The wire is 100% missing from the socket. Also, you can see a small black wire that’s been sniped off.
http://members.shaw.ca/a1rabbi...2.jpg
This is the fuse panel, I don’t know what fuse is for what, if anyone can full me in, thx.
http://members.shaw.ca/a1rabbi...3.jpg
Any chance someone knows what this wire is for.
http://members.shaw.ca/a1rabbi...4.jpg
Same wire as above.
http://members.shaw.ca/a1rabbi...5.jpg
Just incase anyone sees something that looks messed up. (Other than worn wires, exposed wire, burns and corrosion.
)
http://members.shaw.ca/a1rabbi...6.jpg
Same reason as above.
 

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Re: 81 Conv Won't start/run (a1rabbit)

It sounds like you're tackling this without a Bentley manual. Bad idea. Borrow one, steal one, or check one out from the library.
Seriously, there is no practical way of diagnosing / rebuilding wiring and fueling problems without one.
Quote, originally posted by a1rabbit »
There was also some crappy wiring job done to the car, no idea what exactly it's doing but it's for the starter. I think it's an after market starter relay. One wire to the ground on the battery... why it's not grounded to the body I don't know. 2 wires going to the starter, one of these wires is connected to the original red/black (I think) starter wire that goes through the firewall. The other just goes right to the starter. Another wire goes up under the rain try and is fused, it then goes down to the original red/black starter cable that goes right into the firewall and I’m assuming to the fuse block, also connected to this same wire at the female spade where it connects to the relay is another wire, this wire goes to the cold start valve… wth?

This first bit sounds to me like someone tried to make their own cold start circuit ... check the lead that goes to the cold start valve ... when you turn the engine over, does it get power? If so, then I suspect this was their ghetto way of trying to get some cold start fuel to the engine (i.e. it only gets fuel when cranking, not when running). Just a guess.
Quote, originally posted by a1rabbit »
Meanwhile a new fuel pump relay was on order, I picked it up and hoped beyond hope that it would fix the problem… nada. Normally with a relay installed and the car turned to acc. The fuel pump will pressurize the system and then shut off. It does not do that, however when I turn the engine over it does turn on the pump. If I turn it over for just 1 second and then off it will finish pressurizing.

Although you've replaced the relay, from the pictures it looks like your fuel pump circuit in general (the 12ga orange/yellow and red/white wiring in your pics) has been shorted somewhere. Again, you'll need the Bentley manual's wiring diagrams (they're not hard to read, really) and a multimeter. Check for continuity in all of those fuel pump related wires and I'll bet you'll find something melted / shorted somewhere.
After you obtain the Bentley, start with the fuel pump relay circuit. Once that's sorted, I'd strongly recommend rebuilding the proper cold start circuit, assuming that I'm right about the ghetto starter / cold start wiring.
Good luck, get a Bentley, keep posting progress and it'll get sorted.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: 81 Conv Won't start/run (i8yorcat)

As for the short, yea, there must have been one to get the terminals hot enough to melt the connector for the relay like that.
However, last night and today did show some progress. The car now starts on it’s own and idles, timing is spot on assuming I’m using the right timing marks. Someone had put a white blotch beside a protruding mark on the torque converter.
Once it was running I have been unable to make it rev reliably, I can rev it, but not past 3k. If I give it full throttle to rev it up it has a really bad flat spot where when I first give it gas it wants to die and I have to hoax it along. I can only rev it by tapping the gas, or holding it and letting it go up and down. If I rev it high and let go fast the idle drops and stalls, if I rev it slow and let go it drops back down to an idle.
At this point I checked the fuel injectors, number 4 was bad; it would squirt fuel, not spray, and continue squirting for some time after the pump was stopped (leaking the gas in the lines I guess), of all 4 jars number 4 had about 10x as much fuel as the rest.
Here is a video of the injectors being tested, check out number 4, wow was it bad. And you get to listen to a neighbor that came by to “help” drop the magnet we were using so she could swat a bee, had one that just would not leave… they like the apple tree. From what you can see, how do the spray patterns look?
http://files.filefront.com/Che....html
Even after replacing this injector with another (from another engine) that sprayed slightly better than the other 3 current injectors the car still runs poorly. I may get 4 new injectors and see what happens, but I don’t think they are the problem now.
Here is a video so you can kind of see/hear what I’m talking about, probably should have made it longer. You can see my foot with my great “Dad slippers” on the pedal if you want to see what my foot is doing to the accelerator at any given time. At first in the video I slowly rev it to about 2k and you can start to see/hear it sputter. I then rev it slowly to 3k and release and it drops back down to idle. After that I give it about ½ throttle a few times and you can see/hear the flat spot. BTW, that humming in the background is the fuel pump.
http://files.filefront.com/Eng....html
I’m guessing here, but I think it’s the spark or the fuel pressure. I’m running low on money and don’t know where to go next.
Thanks for reading.


Modified by a1rabbit at 10:53 PM 9-11-2005
 

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Re: 81 Conv Won't start/run (a1rabbit)

I do believe it is your fuel pump. If you can hear it fairly easily then it is probably going bad. If you can get your hands on a fuel pressure guage, then just test it to see what the pressure it. Unfortunately, I don't know what it is supposed to be but, someone on here will.
Also, if you cannot get the fuel pump to run momentarily when you first turn the key, then the relay you purchased may still be bad. You can buy then here for really cheap and they seem to work fine (mine is anyway).

https://www.autohausaz.com/mem...09834
As for the pump, all I can say is look around for a deal as these cost about $120 for a new one. (don't get used)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: 81 Conv Won't start/run (a1rabbit)

I decided to swap the fuel distributor with a spare, the whole upper part of the air box actually, it runs great now, not perfect but great.
Still smells a bit rich, but it should be ok with a bit of adjustment.
Now I need to work on the electric issues, which I enjoy much, much more than mechanical.

After that I’ll get to put the interior back in and go get an alignment.
The PO said that there was a tapered bolt on the driver’s side of the suspension, somewhere that needs to be replaced, and anyone know what he’s talking about? The only tapered bolts I can think of are holding the strut to the hub assembly, and those may not even be tapered and I think they are washers; hell I may be 100% wrong lol. Been awhile.
Anyway, I’m pretty happy now that it’s running, took it for a short drive down the road and it’s got decent pick up for an auto. Oh, that reminds me, when it’s in gear I have to fiddle with the gas to get it to engage and start moving… I’m guessing this would be to do with the shift linkages on the tranny.
Thanks.
 

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Re: 81 Conv Won't start/run (a1rabbit)

Glad that worked! If it was indeed your fuel mixture, you can adjust the old fuel distributor by adding/remobing washers (see the manual for exactly where) and you may also just need to remove the plunger and clean that off so it doesn't stick.
You can lean out the fuel mix a little by using a 1/8" allen wrench in that small hole on top of the fuel distributor.
Clock-wise leans out the mix
Counter-clockwise richenes the mix
Just be sure you move it in very small increments at a time as it doesn't take much to make a HUGE difference.
I don't know much about the tapered bolt. The only one I can remember is the bolt that adjusts the wheel angle. It has a washer that is wierd shaped and the head of the bolt itself is also that same shape. It is the top of the two that bolt the strut assembly.
 
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