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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

:wave:

I'm back! Here is my second technical build, aptly named "A very technical build - PART II"
I kept the naming the same because i am keeping almost the same basic concept of a trunk layout, just adding a few tweaks here and there based on stuff i liked and didn't like from the first setup; and yes there were a few things that i didn't like.....

First build for the new guys reading: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5238122-A-very-technical-build

Problems with the first build:
- Hard to get at relays
- Wasn't very "showy"
- didn't actually get around to the subwoofer & amp install so it will be documented here
- Tight for wiring
- Lines under car need to be protected a bit more for my liking in these Canadian winters
What I wanted to add/change:
- Change location of water trap (1)
- Add water trap before the buffer tank (3)
- Add another OB2 compressor (2)
- Move the compressors closer to the tank (4)
- Add more storage room for air tools, spare parts and on the road fix it solutions for ease of road trips (6)
- Make it so that i can drain the water traps and tank without having to air out at all




So to resolve all of the above issues/wants i devised a plan (as usual :p)
Framing system
- Change frame mounting for compressors
- Lower 3 gallon buffer tank and compressors enough so that i could fit a 3” tall floor compartment for storage right above the tank and compressors
- Move the compressors forward on the frame a bit
- Install shut off valve between tanks where the original water trap was located (1)
5 Gallon airtank box
- Add water trap between tank and manifold (7)
- Make false floor to hide all wiring and plumbing for showing off the tank from back seats (keep in mind that there is a false wall hiding the 5 gallon tank from the trunk)
- Add inflation valve to tank just incase something happens
Electrical Connection Box
- Add extensions for compressor relays, cutout through wall so they are accessible from the trunk electrical box instead of below the false floor behind the air tank
- Add amplifier for sub

Okay so here is where the fun begins......


Installed removable connection points (will be moved to the bottom of the frame) so that they can be easily replaced. Needed for the increased weight of all the compressors. They are probably 100lbs for all 3 of them with the frame, good thing i have e-level!


Drain valve on the bottom of the tank with ball valve – easy to drain and will be routed directly out of the trunk through the bottom


Compressors and tank closer together and top at around the same height


Frame redesigned, built, but not fitted in the car yet



Keep looking for updates!
:popcorn:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
can't wait to see the outcome this time! I know Ben from RI had some trouble battery/alternator wise when he ran 3 vlairs, is the power used by these more efficient or do you have plans to support the power consumption. I never thought it would be a problem, but maybe its just a myth / weird coincidence.
200A alternator from EA :thumbup::thumbup:
It is a DEFINITE if you are going to be running more than 1 of them since the amp draw on each is 35A

 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thats great info to know :thumbup::thumbup:. Does that alternator swap right in as well?
Yeah it is a direct bolt on replacement, he makes them custom for what you want. This one i have is 200A @1200rpm and 150A at idle (750rpm)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
yes i :heart: your builds. Could you share how your wiring the three comps? everywhere i looked i have only seen dual diagrams, just curious.

:popcorn:
i will do up complete plumbing and wiring diagrams including my self latching automatic resetting relays and turn off switches for the compressors :thumbup::thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
how much did that alt run you if you don't mind me asking.
Give EA a call and they will give you a quote :thumbup:

:thumbup: love that this is back
:) Me tooooooooooooooooooooooo

:popcorn:can't wait to see more
:thumbup::thumbup:

sweet! I really wanna redo my trunk. Looks ****ing horrid! Can't wait to see yours:thumbup::thumbup::beer:
Let me know and i might be able to help you out if you are ever in Calgary

Hey, Mech, I'd also like to know where you got that alt from (Excessive Amperage?), since I want to go bigger than stock at some point.

Glad to see you're back in the trenches, BTW.

EDIT, nevermid, I just saw the Excessive AMperage sticker on the pic of the alt you took. Duh.:facepalm:
:laugh:

Super nice build! Really like the noise isolation setup. :thumbup:
:thumbup::thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
yes i :heart: your builds. Could you share how your wiring the three comps? everywhere i looked i have only seen dual diagrams, just curious.

:popcorn:
As promised a full plumbing and wiring schematic, any questions just ask.

WIRING

Okay i have decided to do some funky unnecessary wiring here to gain what i feel is a freakin fantastic functionality. Functionality goes as such:
- Turn on car
- Car will raise automatically due to e-level
- Press kill switch to shut off each compressor individually (or maybe all 3, haven't decided yet)
- Compressor will stay off until button is pressed or car is turned off
- If button is in the ON position (working/not lit up) when the car is turned off the switch remains in the same position
- If the button is in the OFF position (not working/yellow light showing) when the car is turned off it automatically resets itself so that when you start the car the compressors will turn on again.

This auto-resetting is fantastic for if you have just a plain toggle switch and forget to switch it back on and all of a sudden you have zero pressure in your tank. The buttons are OEM Euro switches just like the following "funk" switches found on graeme86's webpage http://www.users.on.net/~graeme86/funk/funk.html
They have a brilliant mounting spot that is out of the way and will look extremely OEM.

The wiring diagram is entirely complete except for the wiring of the actual button which is just three lines on my schematic. Here is the internal schematic, just connect 4 and 6 to grounds, 3 to your dimmer switch, 1 and 2 to splice between your line that you want to activate, and 5 from the SPDT relay NO port (87a). This SPDT relay is used purely to get the yellow light to activate when the compressors are in the OFF position and not working, which is the way i want it


 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
you are one serious dude:thumbup: im in:popcorn:
Glad i impressed you :thumbup:

Ahh, it's so nice to see someone doing an install that actually PLANS AHEAD as opposed to winging it, like many of the build threads on the Vortex seem to imply (I could be wrong, just an observation via the internet):D.

Yeah, making diagrams/CAD drawings can take longer, but it also causes less headaches or rebuilds.

Well done, sir.
I totally agree, planning is one of my favorite parts, the other favorite part is building it :p

Looking good! When can we expect SS hardlines?
Honestly i don't think i will ever do hardlines on this setup, just with the way it is designed flexible lines are much better because of the vibrations. The vibration frame will be moving slightly so hardlines to my completely stationary tank might not be the best idea, but you never know in the future :thumbup:

when he buys the stainless, i will lend him my bender
No deal, you will be enlisted to do the actual bending :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I gotta ask about the three comps though... I know why... but why?
Well here were the reasons behind getting another:
- Never heard of anybody with a VW having 3 OB2's so i wanted to be unique
- I had the extra room in my trunk if i redesigned my frame
- I had some extra amperage to play with seeing as i had an upgraded alternator already (150A at idle, so say 130 to play with so we don't run full tilt, ~20A for car functions at any one given time, that leaves 110A for compressors. 35A * 3 = 105A so it is just enough). I would need to upgrade my alternator even further to a 250A/190A idle to accomodate another compressor so it just isn't worth it.
- This way my fill time is virtually non-existent
- With this proven silencing method the compressors are silent while running so i can run as many as i want without negative side effects
- The faster the fill time the less it will start to kill my battery actually, this way my alternator can keep up to the filling and it won't start deep cycling my OEM battery, which it would if i was running it for 5 minutes or so
- Plus it fills up the trunk space nicely :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
LOL. I mean I would take three but I have a show car :p

Any in car audio? I'd love to hear how quiet these are, I think I may run isolators and move my comps into the interior.
You don't want to have three beautiful compressors showing in a show car?? :p

I am just putting a simple head unit in to wire up to the monsoon speakers and amp and put in a small 10" directed audio 300W rms sub and amp in a nice sealed box for a bit of crisp bass. Will run off the other fuse I have in the trunk distribution block. The amp fits in the electrical box section of the build
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I think he was talking about audio clips of the comps running from inside the cabin :thumbup:
Ah gotcha. I must have totally read it wrong.

Bingo. All the work on my car and ICE is all factory. Ended up growing out of that phase. I'd just love to hear in-car noise level.
I don't think that the compressors would be great for inside the cabin, they would be noisy for that. But with the vibration dampening and double layers of airborne sound absorber it is quiet in the cabin with the comps mounted in the spare wheel well.

LOVE LOVE the FUNK button idea, i need this in my life, I hate when the compressor kicks in while waiting for the glow to warm up and then turn off and on when firing the engine :banghead:

Let me know how it goes and I'll most likely do the same :thumbup::thumbup:

EDIT: that guy is asking for $45 shipped for the FUNK button :sly:
Yeah thats what i got from him too.....BUT screw it i am going to do it anyways :p
You can actually use any momentary push button with the wiring diagram that i gave you and just wire in an LED for an on or off indicator :thumbup::thumbup:

I was going to run the mini funk button with a relay. I am still trying to decide on the fine details of it though. I am gonna have to step my game up though after seeing how you throw down.
It's not a competition, it's always nice to have something unique though :thumbup:
Even if you do the same thing not very many people have done it at all so it will still be really unique especially at local shows :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I must admit when it comes to wiring/electronic' i just almost freeze up and don't even know where to start. Its kinda hard to explain the feeling but its so damn stupid! That funk button idea is great! Can't wait for some more progress:thumbup::thumbup::beer:
Well if you ever have any questions let me know and i would be more than willing to help ya out :)

Looking good :p
Thanks Will, hopefully i get more work on it done soon



In other news I got a 20% raise at work plus a big bonus so wheels got ordered :thumbup::thumbup:
Not getting the 9.5 Miro's like i originally anticipated, going for something a bit more classy and a bit less showy. And only a select few people know what wheels they are so no spreading the word around :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Instead of working on the airride this weekend i did a few "supporting mods" and got rid of the stock radio for a head unit from my old jetta, and old astro van, however it still works. Circa ~1998 :rolleyes:

Airride frame is going to get mounted this week, as well as a bit of wiring

 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
best write up ever! i love to see planning with such organization:beer:, it definitely makes me feel inspired to get started on my build. and what do you plan on using to protect the airlines from the harsh canadian winters?
For winter protection i am going to run the airlines tucked underneath the car to the front right beside the other lines that run in between the frame rails, also run wire loom around the whole thing to add cushion and protection. Similar to what i did in the rears last time

 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
in for this as i am installing elevel in march.. i remember reading somewhere that you shouldnt use 2 x 4s or hevy duty stuff in a trnk install cus if you do get in an eaccident your whole trunk set up is getting pushed into your rear seat and used something elseo so it woud break easy but i cannot remember.. anyone hear of something liek this happening?
:rolleyes:

Honestly it's not going to happen. I have heard of this before but i think it is just garbage, the way the seats are designed they are almost bulletproof (i exaggerate of course). What if you just had a 50lb object sitting in the trunk rolling around loose? What would actually do damage, that or a wooden frame that is snugly fitted inside the trunk with an airtank tightly bolted to it :rolleyes:

Again i think that people just say stuff like this to stir up a ruckus, a 2x4 frame that is bolted or snugly fitted in your trunk is not going to do squat compared to a loose object rolling around.

But thanks for the bump!
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Lookin' pretty good so far. Hope this turns out to b what you really want. :thumbup:
Should be :laugh:

MINI UPDATE

Got my water traps on shut off valve. Shut off valve will be extremely handy because with the e-level setup if you relieve pressure from the air manifold the car lowers itself and airs out the bags too. This way i can empty my water traps and drain my 3 gallon tank without having to lose all of my air. This way it is also quicker to get back up to full pressure (not that it will take long anyways)

I am again running flex airlines directly off of the compressor. IMO the OB2 compressors don't get hot enough to do any damage to the airline, if it happens in the future i will worry about it at that point.

Everything is almost ready to install, just have to get quick disconnects for the wiring harnesses of the compressors so that they can be easily detached from the relays and its going in :thumbup::thumbup:

JIC-FNPT adapter, then MNPT-PTC adapter, all 1/2"


All 3 compressors tee together and lead into this one water trap on the side of the tank. 1/2"PTC-3/8"MNPT adapter


Outlet from 3 gallon tank to 5 gallon tank






 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Crappy pic but got the frame in and it fits snug as a bug in a rug. Just perfect size for a trunk wheel well, i can see someone running just this under the floor setup and having room towards the back from the 3 gallon tank to do the manifold for a 2" raised floor setup :thumbup::thumbup:

 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
BTW i read somewhere that your compressor was super quiet, barely hear them at idle due to having sound barrier deadening material, could you show the coverage and how/where it's laying ?
I can do you up a few sketches and take a few pics tomorrow. I am doing the vibration isolation material tomorrow (kinda like your second skin stuff) and then I am doing the b-quiet vcomp airborne sound absorbing material when the false floor gets constructed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 · (Edited)
Sorry for taking my sweet time getting back to you Matt, but here is my ultimate sound proofing plan. The b-quiet ultimate vibration absorbing on the bottom of the whole trunk with the following:

**Scale: NTS (AKA take your own measurements you lazy a$$) :p
 
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