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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys!

Starting a build thread here for my Mk4 Jetta Wolfsburg Ed. I am going at it very technically being a mechanical engineer with a specialization in fluid mechanics ;)

Car in question:


I have spoken to Will and have gotten some questions about shipping to Canada answered and he was a big help. I will be ordering April 15th :thumbup:

Still in the planning phase and getting a model together so that everything will run really smoothly during the actual install, that's what i do.

So a bit about the system i will be running....
- Triple 444c compressors
- 3 Gallon aluminum tank
- 5 Gallon aluminum tank
- e-Level management
- flow control on all lines
- single water trap
- swagelok & ptc fittings
- polished copper hardlines to dot softlines under car
- stainless leader lines
- airlift slam xl fronts
- airlift performance rears
- bilstein rear shocks

A bit about the configuration of my setup.....
I will be running the 3x444c compressors through check valves to a 3/8" common manifold then into the smaller 3 Gallon "buffer" tank. The reason i will run it straight there is because i want to give the air time to cool before hitting the water trap. This way the air will be flowing at a slower speed through the water trap at all times. Basically instead of the 2.4 cfm going straight through the trap with little room to slow down and cool it will start to fill up the tank a bit and then travel slower (approx 60% of the speed) through the trap on its way to the 5 gallon aluminum tank.

Right before the water trap i have a check valve for the simple concept that i am connecting the water trap to the BOTTOM of the 5 gallon tank. This way any water that would have been collected in the 5 gallon tank flows DOWN the walls of the tank, to the bottom outlet, through the leader hose and back into the water trap. This way i can drain everything from the trunk. (see model pictures for reference on the relationship between the 5 gallon tank and water trap)

Using the two tanks will give me versatility as well. Because i put the check valve in there i can now use the manifold to pump up tires, air mattresses if i decide to go camping/to my cabin etc from the 3 gallon tank and have the 5 gallon always full. This way the compressors won't turn on until the 5 gallon tank gets low or unless i manually over-ride this. It will be a nice feature for functionality i think.

So after the 5 gallon tank I will pipe it to the valve unit. After this i will run flow controls so each corner can be adjusted for flow times up and also down. There will be a little bit of piping to make this happen just how i want to but no big deal. Everything will be hidden in the spare wheel well.

Off of each tank i am going to run a 1/8" line to the front under my deck for tank pressure gauges. This is to determine if i have any leaks or if i have used air for any auxilary purpose too much and it needs to be refilled.

As for all the piping it will all be 3/8" and i will restrict it down as necessary.

A bit about the construction of my trunk
There will be 2 seperate sections of my trunk, split front rear style by a faux wall (haven't yet decided if it will be completely vertical or if it will be vertical until it clears my tank and then 45's forward towards the front of the car).

In the front section there will be a 4" raised floor (2x4 + 0.5" solid/non removable floor) with removable panel. This will cover the base of the air tank so that i do not have to hard pipe the short distance between the floor and the bottom tank outlet where i am running a line from my water trap. In the removable panel there will be enough room for my amp for my sub. The removable panel is not shown in the model but it will be there in real life. It is to the right of the tank in picture 1

In the rear section there will be a 1.75" raised floor (2x4 + 0.25" removable floor). This is to accomodate the height of the 3 gallon tank so that i don't have to cut through the flooring. I don't like the flat trunk with the exposed part of a tank look but that is just my personal preference. I am sure that i am doing some things that you guys don't necessarily like either :p

The whole trunk will be sprayed with black gravlguard (truck bed liner or similar) to give it a rough texture and hopefully this will prevent a bit of vibration and give it a clean-ish look if i remove the floor.


Now onto the pictures of the model which i am sure will impress nobody :eek:

Picture 1: This is looking at the trunk from the rear seats. The seats will fold down and you will see only the floor and the tank. All the pipes will be piped from the back of the tank the short distance through the floor. There will also be an airline hook up (ran from the 3 gallon tank) on the far left front side for easy plug in.


Picture 2: Please ignore the huge walls :p This is a shot from outside the car looking in on the trunk with a transparent false floor.


Picture 3: More transparency with a good shot of the rear ports of the tank


Picture 4: Shot of the "removable" insert for the spare tire well. Two common manifolds, check valve in between them so that the air flows from the compressors into the tank first instead of going to the 5 gallon one straight away. Line on the left is for the auxilary air outlet and the water trap is on the right. Valves and wiring will be on the very front of the panel and will be mostly out of sight (hidden from the floor on top)


Picture 5: Another view




So I am definitely up for any discussion what-so-ever about what i am doing and why or if you have any comments or criticisms let me know. I'm Canadian eh so i'm nice

:popcorn:
 

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Nice to see another ME on the fourms. My focus is on machine design so I'm sure I have to go through a couple of old text books before I start criticizing lol;)

The only part I'm having a bit of trouble understanding is the need for flow controls if you are using the e-Level system. The ECU automatically adjust for rise and drop speeds during the calibration process so that everything remains even during operation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nice to see another ME on the fourms. My focus is on machine design so I'm sure I have to go through a couple of old text books before I start criticizing lol;)

The only part I'm having a bit of trouble understanding is the need for flow controls if you are using the e-Level system. The ECU automatically adjust for rise and drop speeds during the calibration process so that everything remains even during operation.
Does it now? I haven't read much on the control system so thanks for the info, should make piping stupidly easy now haha. Do you know of any sites or technical documents on the e-level system as to what exactly the calibration process is? I would like to just double check that I have the complete functionality that I want
 

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Does it now? I haven't read much on the control system so thanks for the info, should make piping stupidly easy now haha. Do you know of any sites or technical documents on the e-level system as to what exactly the calibration process is? I would like to just double check that I have the complete functionality that I want
I don't think any are released to the public but one of my old class mates from Cal Poly actually went for work for Accuair. I'll see what I can squeeze out of him lol :laugh:
 

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FYI, you can download accurate 3D models from SMC's website, just register (free) for their e-tech catalog. If you're using Parker stuff, they have 3D models available for download as well. McMaster sells all sorts of fittings and they provide native Solidworks models most of the time.
 

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wow

very nice i like the planning so far looks like its gunna be clean :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The definition of "overkill", but it's gonna look great. :) :thumbup:
Thanks, overkill is better than wishing you had just a bit more to play with :p

very nice i like the planning so far looks like its gunna be clean :thumbup:
Planning is half the battle usually haha. I hope it looks as clean as i envision it!

FYI, you can download accurate 3D models from SMC's website, just register (free) for their e-tech catalog. If you're using Parker stuff, they have 3D models available for download as well. McMaster sells all sorts of fittings and they provide native Solidworks models most of the time.
I didn't bother with downloading free stuff because it was easy enough to find dimensions and quickly model it up. The whole thing took me maybe and hour and a half.

MEs ftw:thumbup: Is that solid works I see? I did the same thing on my first setup now I just eyeball it cuz I'm lazy lol. Keep up the good work:beer:
Yessir it is solidworks. I am proficient in Solidworks, Inventor, Autocad and Bentley. It just seemed right to model it up to see if my plan would physically fit in the space i have.

I don't think any are released to the public but one of my old class mates from Cal Poly actually went for work for Accuair. I'll see what I can squeeze out of him lol :laugh:
Yes please do man! Any information that i can get the better i will be. Plus this way i can include a bunch of wiring and control works in my diagrams at home.

This guy's the real deal. :thumbup:
Yessir i am real and this is my deal :popcorn:
 

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Solidworks? pfffffff just eyeball it haha. j/k I'm a ME major so I can appreciate this. I'm actually working on an enclosure to silence my compressor. Good luck with the build!
 

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Those 444s draw 38 amps each at full load. Three of them is 114 amps and your alternator only puts out 120 amps max, less at idle. Sure, you can upgrade to a higher output alternator, but if you need more performance than Dual 444s, you may want to consider Dual 480s as a more efficient (fill rate/amp draw) setup.

My suggestion is to stick with two 444s and use the extra money on the key fob remotes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Those 444s draw 38 amps each at full load. Three of them is 114 amps and your alternator only puts out 120 amps max, less at idle. Sure, you can upgrade to a higher output alternator, but if you need more performance than Dual 444s, you may want to consider Dual 480s as a more efficient (fill rate/amp draw) setup.
My suggestion is to stick with two 444s and use the extra money on the key fob remotes.
Actually the max draw on DUAL 444's is 38A (will be maximum 35A due to the pressure range i am running it at). Therefore TRIPLE 444's will run me only 57A maximum and i can deal with that. In comparison i used to run 750W RMS for my two subs which had a fairly high current draw and my alternator did fine.

BTW i only have a 90A alternator so yes i am upgrading it to a 120A. This should be more than enough for my setup but thanks for trying to look at all the aspects of the build :)

DUAL 444C Performance Data
PSI CFM A BAR LPM A
0 3.53 23 0 100 23
10 3.25 27 1.0 92.0 27
20 2.97 31 2.0 82.0 31
30 2.86 31 3.0 76.0 35
40 2.72 32 4.0 71.5 35
50 2.58 34 5.0 67.0 36
60 2.47 34 6.0 63.0 36
70 2.37 35 7.0 60.5 37
80 2.30 37 8.0 56.0 37
90 2.19 37 9.0 52.0 37
100 2.12 38 10.0 47.5 36
110 2.01 36 11.0 44.5 36
120 1.91 36 12.0 41.0 35
130 1.80 35 13.0 36.5 32
140 1.73 35 14.0 33.0 31
150 1.62 34
160 1.55 33
170 1.48 32
180 1.34 31
190 1.24 30
200 1.13 28
*Supply Voltage: 13.8 Volts


Solidworks? pfffffff just eyeball it haha. j/k I'm a ME major so I can appreciate this. I'm actually working on an enclosure to silence my compressor. Good luck with the build!
Haha thanks. What type of sound deadening are you using? and how will the compressors not cause a vacuum when in a full enclosure? More details pls :thumbup:

im in for this.. will be a great build:thumbup:
subscribed, this will be fun :popcorn:

take lots of pic :thumbup::peace:
I will take TWICE as many as you :p

:thumbup: for calgary, air ride and a well planned build
I meant to ask, how is your setup working in the winter weather? Getting much water/freeze-up in the valves and stuff?

One of the better threads on vortex right now. :beer:
Cheers



:popcorn:

So not much new as an update, just thinking about how i am going to mount the air manifolds and water trap to the spare tire well. I was thinking building supports and using perhaps velcro straps to strap everything down so it doesn't move around very well. Any other ideas anyone??
 

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I meant to ask, how is your setup working in the winter weather? Getting much water/freeze-up in the valves and stuff?

So not much new as an update, just thinking about how i am going to mount the air manifolds and water trap to the spare tire well. I was thinking building supports and using perhaps velcro straps to strap everything down so it doesn't move around very well. Any other ideas anyone??

setup has worked awesome in the winter and i park outside. i've drained the water trap like twice, no water in the tank and no frozen lines/valves. the way i had it before i cut a piece of wood to fit in the spare tire well and used a hole saw to cut a hole for the post in the middle and then just bolted everything to the board.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
setup has worked awesome in the winter and i park outside. i've drained the water trap like twice, no water in the tank and no frozen lines/valves. the way i had it before i cut a piece of wood to fit in the spare tire well and used a hole saw to cut a hole for the post in the middle and then just bolted everything to the board.
Thats awesome news. You using the airline fluid in your tank or not?
 
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