Re: Advantages of an W-engine (DoktaJoch)

to put it simple: power of a V12, but doesn't take up as much space. V12s are LONG engines and that's why cars with them have such long hoods. they are also great for power though and a W12 is a way of getting all that power into a smaller chassis.
obin

 

Re: Advantages of an W-engine (DoktaJoch)

packaging is just about the only advantage

 

Re: Advantages of an W-engine (FastGTi)

Quote, originally posted by FastGTi »

packaging is just about the only advantage

Yup. the VR and W engine designs have a lot of disadvantages, mostly due to the wide heads.
But they package well, which is why VW uses them.

 

I wonder how hard it would be to put one in a gti?

 

Re: Advantages of an W-engine (DoktaJoch)

When you give some thought to Audi's quattro system, you'll understand why a W12 makes sense.
Because Audi's quattro system mounts the front differential between the engine and transmission, Audi engines are mounted ahead of the front wheel center line (excluding the TT and A3). We all know that for ideal balance, you want most of the engine's mass mounted behind the front wheel center line. Would you really want a V12 sitting ahead of the front wheels? At least the W12 layout reduces the amount of mass sitting ahead of the front wheels.

 

I remember reading an article in the UK...a top vw official was saying that it would take much mods to fit a W8 engine in a MKIV golf. But why would you want that? the VR6 is already to heavy for the MKIV chasis...I know it sounds great (I had a 2001 VR6) but performance/handling wise...

 

Re: Advantages of an W-engine (MEIN_VW)

Quote, originally posted by MEIN_VW »

When you give some thought to Audi's quattro system, you'll understand why a W12 makes sense. Because Audi's quattro system mounts the front differential between the engine and transmission, Audi engines are mounted ahead of the front wheel center line (excluding the TT and A3). We all know that for ideal balance, you want most of the engine's mass mounted behind the front wheel center line. Would you really want a V12 sitting ahead of the front wheels? At least the W12 layout reduces the amount of mass sitting ahead of the front wheels.

Damn!!! So that means that the quattro makes packaging just like that of a Chrysler LH car. Longitudinal engine in front of the front axle, with a lovely incredible overhang.

Suddenly I'm not liking Audi...

You get a RWD or a quattro $80,000 car, with the engine packaging of a $15,000 car...

 

Re: Advantages of an W-engine (MEIN_VW)

Quote, originally posted by MEIN_VW »

When you give some thought to Audi's quattro system, you'll understand why a W12 makes sense. Because Audi's quattro system mounts the front differential between the engine and transmission, Audi engines are mounted ahead of the front wheel center line (excluding the TT and A3). We all know that for ideal balance, you want most of the engine's mass mounted behind the front wheel center line. Would you really want a V12 sitting ahead of the front wheels? At least the W12 layout reduces the amount of mass sitting ahead of the front wheels.

Well said. But also on another note, I wonder why Audi is waiting so long to utilize the next gen Torsen, which will help move that trans-axle back and also better weight distribution.

 

Re: Advantages of an W-engine (kerridwen)

Quote, originally posted by kerridwen »

Damn!!! So that means that the quattro makes packaging just like that of a Chrysler LH car. Longitudinal engine in front of the front axle, with a lovely incredible overhang. Suddenly I'm not liking Audi... You get a RWD or a quattro $80,000 car, with the engine packaging of a $15,000 car...

i don't understand why people get so caught up on these details. why does it matter if the car itself drives just as well if not better than its competitors that have the supposedly superior design. i mean, if u look at any 80,000 car, it's not like u're getting four times everything of a 20,000 car.

 

Re: Advantages of an W-engine (kerridwen)

Quote, originally posted by kerridwen »

Damn!!! So that means that the quattro makes packaging just like that of a Chrysler LH car. Longitudinal engine in front of the front axle, with a lovely incredible overhang. Suddenly I'm not liking Audi... You get a RWD or a quattro $80,000 car, with the engine packaging of a $15,000 car...

audi has been using this set up for decades, nothing new here. drive one before you knock it.

 

Pros:
- Packaging
- Brand distinctiveness
- Engineering "Wow" factor
Cons:
- Higher operating temperatures
- Relatively low specific output (partially as a result of above)
- Increased complexity & expense
From an engineering perspective they're an elegant and beautifully executed solution to a tough packaging problem. VW's trial runs with the Nardo showed that W engines can stand up to long periods of stressful operation, thus helping allay concerns about reliability. The big down side IMO is how difficult they are to service, but a lot of that is the fact that they are all put into engine bays that are as small as possible. In a roomier engine bay they probably wouldn't be too much more labor-intensive than a modern DOHC V engine of equivalent cylinders.

 

Re: (CedricSwitzerland)

Quote, originally posted by CedricSwitzerland »

I remember reading an article in the UK...a top vw official was saying that it would take much mods to fit a W8 engine in a MKIV golf. But why would you want that? the VR6 is already to heavy for the MKIV chasis...I know it sounds great (I had a 2001 VR6) but performance/handling wise...

Well thats not true. Everyone assumes the VR weighs loads when in actuality I recently discovered my Bora V6 weighs a similar amount to a TDI PD 150 Golf - and I have 4Motion. If you ignore the obvious driveline element, I also highly doubt a W8 would fit, the V6 takes up 2/3 of the engine bay. For the record, the W12 sounds stunning. I had a thrash against a Phaeton W1 and it sounded just unbelievable



Modified by Mikedav at 10:42 PM 1-10-2005

 

Re: Advantages of an W-engine (kerridwen)

Quote, originally posted by kerridwen »

Damn!!! So that means that the quattro makes packaging just like that of a Chrysler LH car. Longitudinal engine in front of the front axle, with a lovely incredible overhang. Suddenly I'm not liking Audi... You get a RWD or a quattro $80,000 car, with the engine packaging of a $15,000 car...

Yeah, and BMW uses Macpherson sturts at the front suspensions of their cars, just like every POS front wheel drive car. And we all know how crappy BMW's are!