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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, well I just got my $$$ from Uncle Sam and after bills, I have bout $1300 to play with. I really had my heart set on a FMIC (gotta love the look of a front mount http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) But my very knowledgable buddy tells me that I can get alot more out of an air/water. I dont doubt him one bit but will it really benifit me considering several factors:
1.) running stock turbo (see sigs for mods list) (going stgIII next year)
2.) my car is my daily driver and I dont "run" it very often but I like to kno that when the time comes for the trak, Im ready.
If I go w/air/water, i will have less lag right? how will it effect my driveability?
also, I can put dry ice in there and get even more power right?
Also, I thought I saw a frontmount made by i think Eurosport that was for $600...does anyone know which one it was cause I did a search but could not find any? Thanx

Modified by 20vWolf at 10:07 AM 2-12-2004


Modified by 20vWolf at 8:53 AM 2-13-2004
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (20vWolf)

The water to air intercoolers are usually for drag
FMIC is for ur daily driving purpose unless your a hardcore racer on every weekend
http://www.bellintercoolers.com has a good explanation of both in comparison


Modified by Scuba at 4:10 PM 2-12-2004
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (Scuba)

there are a couple of vortexers I know that want to do a/w. I personally would do a/a because its more daily driving friendly. But research both, and then make your decision.
Hopefully the a/w people will chime in here with their thoughts/opinions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (Seanathan)

a/w is the deal...
if i could have i would have... but i came across a deal with the fmic... one of those, to good to pass up deals,,,
 

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I wouldn't recommend a W2AIC unless your gonna be drag racing. The benefit there is you can put a chemical or ice into the reservoir tank to get it colder than ambients.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (1.8T3t04e)

Thanx! Thats my biggest issue, driveability. Anyone know what FMIC was going for $600? I coulda sworn it was EuroSport but I cant seem to find it thru the search?
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (1.8T3t04e)

a/w is nice, yes. But for a daily grind (ie city driving) I'm not really sure how long it would last.. what about those long 6hr drives too? hmm.
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (Seanathan)

A/W is just more complex, thus scaring off many people from trying it.
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (Bug_Power)

from what i read, a/w cooling can only go so far...
So what do you a/w guys do for long road trips? City driving, etc? How long does it last?
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (Seanathan)

Quote, originally posted by Seanathan »
from what i read, a/w cooling can only go so far...
So what do you a/w guys do for long road trips? City driving, etc? How long does it last?

A/W cooling is as good if not better in every catagory other then sitting in rush hour traffic even then it takes longer for it to heat up. With a properly designed system I can't think of a single application that I can't find a A/W system superior, however more complex, then an A/A equivilent.
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (Bug_Power)

i prefer A/W b/c its different, plus it can be over efficient. I think chris86vw installed a set of twin A/W ICs on an S4 and they were over efficient, that is a good deal to me...
 

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Yeah putting ice in your reservoir can produce higher than 100% efficiency over ambients, but when there is no ice, then aren't you dealing with two effiencies?
A2W then W2A?
I might be wrong but isn't that the case?
 

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http://www.bellintercoolers.co...owcan
How can an air-to-air intercooler be more efficient than a water based intercooler?
There is an overwhelming quantity of ambient air available to cool an air-to-air core relative to the charge air thru the inside of the intercooler (The iced down water intercooler is the only exception to this argument.). At just 60 mph, with a 300 bhp engine at full tilt, the ambient air available to cool the intercooler is about ten times the amount of charge air needed to make the 300 hp. Whereas the water intercooler largely stores the heat in the water until off throttle allows a reverse exchange. Some heat is expelled from a front water cooler, but the temperature difference between the water and ambient air is not large enough to drive out much heat. Another way to view the situation is that ultimately the heat removed from the air charge must go into the atmosphere regardless of whether it's from an air intercooler or a water based intercooler. The problem with the water intercooler is that the heat has more barriers to cross to reach the atmosphere than the air intercooler. Like it or not, each barrier represents a resistance to the transfer of heat. The net result; more barriers, less heat transfer.
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (Bug_Power)

Quote, originally posted by Bug_Power »

A/W cooling is as good if not better in every catagory other then sitting in rush hour traffic even then it takes longer for it to heat up. With a properly designed system I can't think of a single application that I can't find a A/W system superior, however more complex, then an A/A equivilent.

Right. But the ice can only last so long with the water.. thats what I mean by city driving.. IE long periods of stop and go. A/w coolers provide better cooling ability, but from what I've read its only for so long. Making it the number one preference drag racing, not endurance (track) use or street use.... but please continue..
Not trying to argue with you.. just trying to understand.



Modified by Seanathan at 2:01 PM 2-12-2004
 

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Re: air/water vs. FMIC...which one to go with (Bug_Power)

Quote, originally posted by Bug_Power »

A/W cooling is as good if not better in every catagory other then sitting in rush hour traffic even then it takes longer for it to heat up. With a properly designed system I can't think of a single application that I can't find a A/W system superior, however more complex, then an A/A equivilent.

You mean other than being less reliable, and much less efficient? In a street driven application the only benefit to the a/w is possibly shorter intake tube routing, and the ability to be used where packaging is really an issue. Other than that they don't work as well. the explanaiton at Bell intercoolers is a good palce to start reading.
 

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The only benefit is, shorter intake tubing, space requirments, the use of below ambient ice water, and less pressure drop.
So I would not say they are superior, I would say they are only superior in really one application, and that's drag racing.
 

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Re: (Exit109GTI)

I am working ob an A/W setup for my APR stg 3 GTI right now. I got a A/W core from spearco that will support 400hp and I am modifying one tank so it will fit in the STOCK LOCATION and use STOCK PIPING. I have a heat exchanger mounted in my grill, 1 gallon tank and a water pump that flows 6gpm. I am about two weeks from a finished project since I have to work on this after work. I will post pics of everything once completed.
A/W is fine for long trips. Its not like you are in boost for 6 straight hours. I plan on turning the water pump off for highway driving. A/A might be better for everyday use but the A/W setup will handle it fine and will out perform the A/A setup on max hp things like dyno's and drag racing.
Ice makes a big change in the A/W setup for sure. A friend of mine went from 310whp to 329whp in his SC Honda just by filling his tank with ice. His software won't add extra timing like ours will when it see the lower temps either.
Don't be afraid of A/W setups. They just take a little more planning to make them run right.
 

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Re: (Exit109GTI)

Quote, originally posted by Exit109GTI »
http://www.bellintercoolers.co...owcan
How can an air-to-air intercooler be more efficient than a water based intercooler?
There is an overwhelming quantity of ambient air available to cool an air-to-air core relative to the charge air thru the inside of the intercooler (The iced down water intercooler is the only exception to this argument.). At just 60 mph, with a 300 bhp engine at full tilt, the ambient air available to cool the intercooler is about ten times the amount of charge air needed to make the 300 hp. Whereas the water intercooler largely stores the heat in the water until off throttle allows a reverse exchange. Some heat is expelled from a front water cooler, but the temperature difference between the water and ambient air is not large enough to drive out much heat. Another way to view the situation is that ultimately the heat removed from the air charge must go into the atmosphere regardless of whether it's from an air intercooler or a water based intercooler. The problem with the water intercooler is that the heat has more barriers to cross to reach the atmosphere than the air intercooler. Like it or not, each barrier represents a resistance to the transfer of heat. The net result; more barriers, less heat transfer.

The website says that yes.... email or call them and they will tell you different......
 
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