[livingVoice]

Hey, I saw this add for a 03 S2000 and the owner proudly states that he has had a total of four oil changes (synthetic) since he had the car. Even though it only has 15K but don't you think four oil changes in four years is a little bit stingy?
Here the entire add:
2003 Honda S2000 Silverstone Metallic Convertible. For sale by original owner for $24,250. Only 14,650 miles placed on the car since its purchase 3/03. This S2000 has been babied (4 oil changes-all synthetic) and is in excellent condition. All service records are available. Low miles are predominantly from weekend pleasure driving. More pics available on AutoTrader.com. Standard features include: ABS (4-Wheel), Air Conditioning, Alloy Wheels, Cruise Control, Key-less Remote, Leather, Power Door Locks, Power Steering, Power Windows, Push-Button Start, AM/FM Stereo, Tilt Wheel, Single Compact Disc, Dual Front Air Bags

 

[Merc-MarkO]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (livingVoice)

6 months or 6k miles is my regime. Even by that, he's a bit behind.

 

[SuperGroove]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (livingVoice)

as long as it's being driven periodically, I don't see a problem.
However, this could be a decent case of it pays to have a higher mileage car.

 

[GTiTOM]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (livingVoice)

The newer Honda engines require (as per the manual) 1 oil change on regular dino oil 1x every 10,000 miles or 1x per year, whichever comes first. There is an * for "harsh driving" which is basically lots of stop and go or extreme weather conditions, neither of which seem to apply to this car.
At 14,650 miles, he could be halfway to his second oil change on regular dino oil, and still be within factory recommended spec. Even if he went by the 5,000 mile definition, he'd still only be coming up on his 3rd oil change. If anything, he's changed the oil TOO much http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Price seems a little high for a 3 year old one (although I could be wrong, as I haven't looked at the used market for these cars too much), especially since you could go walk into a dealer right now and probably leave with one for $30k.


Modified by GTiTOM at 3:04 PM 11-27-2006

 

[Bob Opla]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (GTiTOM)

are you kidding me? if he's done 4 oil changes and it had fresh oil when he purchased it, that is actually 5 cycles of new oil in 15,000 miles. Thats synthetic oil changes every 3k miles. He is behind how?

 

[someguy123]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (Bob Opla)

Quote, originally posted by Bob Opla »

are you kidding me? if he's done 4 oil changes and it had fresh oil when he purchased it, that is actually 5 cycles of new oil in 15,000 miles. Thats synthetic oil changes every 3k miles. He is behind how?

I think 'Time' is a variable/factor.
Or at least my dealer recommends 6 month oil changes or about 6k miles, whichever comes first.

 

[GTiTOM]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (livingVoice)

I just checked out Edmunds, which supposedly gets their info off of Honda's Owner Link website
http://www.edmunds.com/mainten...munds
They say the intervals for oil change are 3,750, 7,500, 11,250, and 15,000. Meaning that he's right on schedule if he was using dino oil, and slightly ahead using synthetic. Again, if anything he's changed the oil too often http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

 

[TurboJewUrS4]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (GTiTOM)

Dont bother with that S2K. For the same money you can get an '04 which has the larger engine, bigger wheels, revised styling, etc...

 

[livingVoice]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (someguy123)

Quote, originally posted by someguy123 »

I think 'Time' is a variable/factor. Or at least my dealer recommends 6 month oil changes or about 6k miles, whichever comes first.

That is exactly my point. Time is also a factor.
Even if someone has brought up that the recommended oil change interval is about 10K, I doubt I or any responsible car owner would wait that long. 4K mile or 4months per oil change (which ever comes first) is probably the max for me regardless of driving condition/style.
After 4K even with mostly freeway driving, the oil has turned mostly dark and thick. And everytime I've had my oil changed (even within recommend interval), the engine always revs better.

 

[tjl]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (livingVoice)

Quote, originally posted by livingVoice »

Even if someone has brought up that the recommended oil change interval is about 10K, I doubt I or any responsible car owner would wait that long. 4K mile or 4months per oil change (which ever comes first) is probably the max for me regardless of driving condition/style.

With the proper oil, 10,000 mile oil changes are definitely possible in some engines, as determined by oil analysis. But it depends on the engine, oil, and driving conditions.
Time limits given in the manual are likely there because low mileage over a long time usually means city driving, cold start short trips, or long periods of sitting without being driven, all of which are "severe" service.
Perhaps cars could have a lifetime hour meter and lifetime fuel consumed meter, with oil changes specified every T hours of operation (with penalty time for cold operation) or F gallons/litres of fuel consumed (and the readings taken and recorded at each service, in addition to lifetime mileage).

Quote »

After 4K even with mostly freeway driving, the oil has turned mostly dark and thick. And everytime I've had my oil changed (even within recommend interval), the engine always revs better.

My car's oil looks dark after 100 miles. But others with the same car have found that 10,000 mile old oil is typically ok according to oil analysis.

 

[BetterByDesign]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (tjl)

Hondas are meant to be driven. I'd actually stay away from that.

 

[GTiTOM]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (livingVoice)

Quote, originally posted by livingVoice »

I doubt I or any responsible car owner would wait that long.

I wait that long. If i ever have any doubts about when to change my oil, I defer to the people who built the engine, and not the marketers running Jiffy Lube. Oil turns dark black nearly instantly after an oil change, so the visual analysis just doesn't really cut it. Put some oil in a frying pan and heat it up to 200 degrees for an hour....then tell me if it's the same color

I change every 10K, although I do go with synthetic and 95% of my driving is highway. If I drive a lot this winter, I'll probably change it earlier. I pay an extra ten bucks and have it done at the dealer, so that if anything ever happens I can simply say "Well, I got it changed at the dealership under factory recommended conditions".
Again, why would Honda risk ruining their reputation of long-life engines by putting in haphazard maintenance recommendations? Especially when there's MORE money to be made in telling people to go 2x as often? If anything, I'd bet they're erring on the side of caution, and you could go 15K and still be fine under normal driving conditions.

 

[livingVoice]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (GTiTOM)

Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »

I wait that long. If i ever have any doubts about when to change my oil, I defer to the people who built the engine, and not the marketers running Jiffy Lube. Oil turns dark black nearly instantly after an oil change, so the visual analysis just doesn't really cut it. Put some oil in a frying pan and heat it up to 200 degrees for an hour....then tell me if it's the same color I change every 10K, although I do go with synthetic and 95% of my driving is highway. If I drive a lot this winter, I'll probably change it earlier. I pay an extra ten bucks and have it done at the dealer, so that if anything ever happens I can simply say "Well, I got it changed at the dealership under factory recommended conditions". Again, why would Honda risk ruining their reputation of long-life engines by putting in haphazard maintenance recommendations? Especially when there's MORE money to be made in telling people to go 2x as often? If anything, I'd bet they're erring on the side of caution, and you could go 15K and still be fine under normal driving conditions.

Could you publish your car VIN so in case anyone here goes shopping for a used car?

 

[juice]

I bet it's fine. Do an oil analysis if you're worried.

 

[SchnellFowVay]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (GTiTOM)

Quote, originally posted by GTiTOM »

I wait that long. If i ever have any doubts about when to change my oil, I defer to the people who built the engine, and not the marketers running Jiffy Lube. Oil turns dark black nearly instantly after an oil change, so the visual analysis just doesn't really cut it. Put some oil in a frying pan and heat it up to 200 degrees for an hour....then tell me if it's the same color I change every 10K, although I do go with synthetic and 95% of my driving is highway. If I drive a lot this winter, I'll probably change it earlier. I pay an extra ten bucks and have it done at the dealer, so that if anything ever happens I can simply say "Well, I got it changed at the dealership under factory recommended conditions". Again, why would Honda risk ruining their reputation of long-life engines by putting in haphazard maintenance recommendations? Especially when there's MORE money to be made in telling people to go 2x as often? If anything, I'd bet they're erring on the side of caution, and you could go 15K and still be fine under normal driving conditions.

I agree. My '07 GTI has recommeded changes every year, or 10,000 miles.
Why, oh why, would I argue with the manufacturer's recommendations? (Manufacturers, are, afterall, generally FAR too conservative with their estimates).
Further, synthetic oil DOES NOT "break down" like dino oil does. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with waiting a year in between changes, so long as your mileage is under manufacturer recommendations (this, of course, only applies to synthetic oil).

 

[Art Vandelay]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (SchnellFowVay)

I try not to go longer than 6 months between changes no matter what the mileage is <shrug>

 

[GTiTOM]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (SchnellFowVay)

Quote, originally posted by livingVoice »

Could you publish your car VIN so in case anyone here goes shopping for a used car?

Well, let's put it this way. If/when I sell my car privately, I will be 100% honest and give complete and full disclosure that I followed all of the manufacturer's maintenance schedule to a T, and in fact switched to synthetic oil along the way. I'll have my receipts and my stamped book from Honda dealers. Maybe someone will choose a car that is the same as mine but with 3000 mile changes instead of mine, but I guarantee I'll have no problem selling it, and will let it go with good conscience and no worries that I'm shafting anyone http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Quote, originally posted by SchnellFowVay »

Why, oh why, would I argue with the manufacturer's recommendations? (Manufacturers, are, afterall, generally FAR too conservative with their estimates).

That right there sums it up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

 

[livingVoice]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (tjl)

Quote, originally posted by tjl »

My car's oil looks dark after 100 miles. But others with the same car have found that 10,000 mile old oil is typically ok according to oil analysis.

What I am going to say is not an argument but merely an observation.
My car is relatively new with about 9K but the oil does not definitely turn dark after 100 miles. But I did notice after around 3K miles, it does turn darker and not as clear when it was new.
Of course I am not saying the degree of darkness is necessary an indication of whether the oil should be changed.
I wonder if 10K interval oil chang is ok BUT may not be optimal? Long term build-up could be an issue.

 

[GTiTOM]

Re: An 03 car with hour oil changes so far? and proud of it!!! (livingVoice)

Quote, originally posted by livingVoice »

I wonder if 10K interval oil chang is ok BUT may not be optimal? Long term build-up could be an issue.

Again, it's a simple question: Why would Honda be willing to ruin their long-term reputation as one of the best engine builders in the world? Especially when the alternative is to be 2x as conservative and make 2x as much money from oil changes and services. It just doesn't make sense for them to do anything but err on the side of caution.
Again, it's not optimal for all driving conditions, and if you do a lot of stop and go driving you have to do it sooner (according to the factory recommendation). But I have no worries about changing my oil after 10,000 highway miles averaging about 70 mph. I've thought about doing oil analysis, but the only reason would be to prove my 3,000 mile friends wrong, and I'm not that interested in it