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Epxoy or polyurethane. I like PU because it is quite waterproof and long-term flexible.
 

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Can you recommend a poly product?
PL construction adhesive. I can't remember if it's still branded OSI or it's now Loctite.

That or windshield adhesive. Any windshield adhesive will also be a good choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
PL construction adhesive. I can't remember if it's still branded OSI or it's now Loctite.

That or windshield adhesive. Any windshield adhesive will also be a good choice.
Oh boy, I get to use my Cleco's again. Best fab tool.
 

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Just got caught up on this thread.

I'm pleasantly surprised at the quality of the trailer build, and the ability to use somewhat standard repair methods to get it back into shape. I'm always concerned about the potential for leaks on a trailer but it looks like you'll have that covered.

And the expanding foam story..... :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #67
This is the picture I was thinking of. Turns out the poor woman may have been attacked. ****ty prank.

 

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Oh boy, I get to use my Cleco's again. Best fab tool.
We use rivbonding at work for dynamic structures. Holds up really well to vibration. Toughened epoxy is actually relatively flexible, the rivets keep things from flexing too much anyway. We use ScotchWeld DP420 for mounting click bonds, which use no rivets. If you do the prep work right, the bonds are insanely strong - if you pry one off, generally its the base material that fails and stays with the bond itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #69
I ordered 4 tubes of 3M windshield adhesive to bed everything. Tough stuff.

When I bought my Clecos to build my car hauler in 2006 I taught myself to rivet. Having very long arms I could be the bucker and the buckee. There's a sound and a feeling you hear and get when the operation is complete. It's quite possible to rivet without denting the metal, but you have to over-rivet to match the factory production look.



These are called "Plier Operated" Cleco Fasteners used is auto body and airframe applications where multiple layers of metal need to be drawn tightly together before riveting. It's crucial for strength that there be no gaps between the layers cause by burrs or shavings. You must de-burr both sides of drilled holes to insure that there can be no movement. Clecos are temporary fasteners. They are available in 4 standard sizes. I'm using the black 5/32" Clecos. The copper ones are 1/8". I bought about a dozen black ones for oversized holes. The rivets I bought are a perfect fit.

The outer parts are spring loaded. It it relaxed state the center divider forces the center tongue to spread out the tanged side pieces. When the plier pressure is applied the center tongue darts forward putting a much thinner section between the tangs shrinking their size so that they can be inserted into a proper size hole. Now that the tangs are on the other sod of the metal releasing the spring retracts the tongue and spreads the tangs to grip the back side of the hole and draw that metal to together, temporarily.

Once everything is fitted and de-burred it can be glued and riveted for a strong, yet flexible bond. These are extra long versions for thicker material. The thinner the assembly the smaller the range.

http://clecofasteners.info/img/clecos/extra-long-pl-slide.jpg/IMG]

Using the original spacer from the other side I was able to determine that I had returned the damaged metal to its correct position which allowed me to use silicone to attach the body skin back to the framework so I can adhere a new insulation pad that the inner skin attaches to. They used silicone, so I followed suit.

This was quite a pivotal moment for this repair

[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/gg18/barry2952/IMG_0492.jpeg

This is a common tool for riveting. By expanding and contacting the assembly you can easily match the original pattern. My next task was to reinforce the roof panel I removed to get to the damage.



I marked every location but circled every other location for screws that will hold the splice support made of clear 1x3 white pine.



The support serves as a ledge to attach the outer skin to. I counter-sunk the stainless square drive flathead screws as I didn't want round head scews to add to the assembly's thickness as the new aluminum skin stretches beyond this joint and attached into an aluminum roof truss. I'm being careful to use fasteners standard to that industry.



You can see the 1x3 ledge and the 1x3 cap that will give the sliding glass doors something very substantial to mount the track to and tie into the tops of the walls on either side. It re-unifies the structure that had been screwed into sheetmetal that was part of the ceiling panel. Likely as strong as the original, if not stronger.

 

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Discussion Starter #71
Now I get to tell my nightmare story everyone in the restoration or repair business has had. An encounter with a hapless and unqualified "new person" that hasn't a clue. Gary has sourced a replacement ladder from the trailer manufacturer but was dissuaded from buying the ladder direct, but none of dealers had a clue as to who to ask what, so no-one called him back. I took the reins and worked my way in as a dealer and spoke to the same idiot he did. She told me that the freight for the $400 40-pound ladder would be as much as the ladder itself. I started with her on October 15th and finally placed an order after giving her supervisor an earful 10 days later. To avoid the high freight and crating charge I decided to send someone to Indiana to get the ladder and other original color paneling and the odd 2.5" x 1"x .055 wall lightweight tubing to make a new truss bar.

She quoted me prices and then doubled them on the final invoice. instead of 2 8' pieces of aluminum she wrote up the order for one 2-foot piece. I was told the ladder was in stock, but it wasn't. 4-6-weeks out. The person that called me to finalize the credit card transaction caught the brunt of my frustration. She understood once she read the mile-long e-mail chain. She turned me over to their supervisor after I got the excuse, "Well, she's new." The manager asked if she could have time to read the chain of communication and said, "You clearly begged her to finalize the transaction 5 days ago. I can't believe it was this badly botched."

I was told by the first person that it would take two weeks to cut the aluminum in half so that we could transport it in a mini-van. That's when I lost it. The manager stepped up, got everything gathered and it's waiting for pick-up tomorrow. The ladder will be shipped without shipping charges right from the manufacturer.

BTW, the onerous shipping charge was only $130.00, not $400. She apparently never inquired, betting she told everyone that. BTW, the ladder, as a dealer, was only $186.00.

 

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Discussion Starter #72
We use rivbonding at work for dynamic structures. Holds up really well to vibration. Toughened epoxy is actually relatively flexible, the rivets keep things from flexing too much anyway. We use ScotchWeld DP420 for mounting click bonds, which use no rivets. If you do the prep work right, the bonds are insanely strong - if you pry one off, generally its the base material that fails and stays with the bond itself.
What are dynamic structures?
 

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While I like the progress, it appears that complete incompetence is the norm these days. Sorry you had to suffer through that ordeal.
 

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What are dynamic structures?
I can't speak for the original source, but in my career working on airborne systems I think of dynamic structures as things like wings on an aircraft, they look pretty ridged on the ground but move in a variety of ways while flying. Finding ways to bond and fasten stuff that moves like that is an art. Also have experience with click bonds, those things are amazing and versatile. Need a stud to mount something, glue it right where you need it.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
I can't speak for the original source, but in my career working on airborne systems I think of dynamic structures as things like wings on an aircraft, they look pretty ridged on the ground but move in a variety of ways while flying. Finding ways to bond and fasten stuff that moves like that is an art. Also have experience with click bonds, those things are amazing and versatile. Need a stud to mount something, glue it right where you need it.
:thumbup:


I couldn't get Photobucket to cooperate yesterday. As soon as the material arrived from the manufacturer Gary and I set to work using it up. The first task was to laminate the exterior skin to the replacement foam board with contact cement.



I needed to add some strength to the side wall so I cut a stiff plywood backer and used contact cement on the back of the board to attach it to the foam. I screwed it to the available aluminum framework. I used cement to adhere the finished panel to the new substrate.



I decided to not use any binding agent as the foam will rigidly bond to everything in the space. That will keep everything from flexing. These brackets alone are 10 times stronger than the original wimpy welds.



With some very minor trimming I was able to get the paneling into the original slot and bent it along it length and slide it perfectly into the vertical wall.



I'd rather cut twice to fit than try and stretch the material. You can see the gap between the paneling and what it's supposed to fit smoothly to.



This is what it looked like from the inside of the closet. By trimming the top of the splice the paneling formed to the curve and closed the gap.



The tradition of white ceilings in homes is still strong in trailers. The wall material is a color pattern while ceiling panel is the same pattern, but white. The sagging panel is secured to the new 1 x 3 which is also the mount for the sliding closet doors. The tracks perfectly hid the splice. It's undetectable.



I installed the original clothes hanger bar hung directly from The new aluminum truss. I caulked the seams and it looks like nothing has ever happened.



Gary took the mirrored glass doors off, so I set Gary on the task to re-hang them. He did a great job.



I installed the new spacer. That clamps the paneling in place. The screws tie it to the aluminum wall structure below. This curve allowed for the original fiberglass panel to be bent over and attached to the roof. That panel was crushed and is being replaced with a thin aluminum diamond plate bent specifically to follow the curve of the filler.



Old spacer reinstalled. The roof panel fits between the fiberglass side panels and is sealed with a piece of aluminum trim and sealants.



These blind rivets are many times stronger than a conventional pop rivet. The mandrel is much, much, harder to break, insuring a very tight connection. If I had to do much with these I'd buy a power popper. It took both of my incredibly strong hands working at near capacity to pop Cherry rivets. Impressive.



The new top plate is screwed into the existing closet wall below and the closet door track is screwed in from the bottom. The top skin slice is secured to its support along the length awaiting foam and
a new top skin bowed to match the original top.



I actually did the math on this foam job and determined that I need 3 board feet of foam to fill the cavity. The smallest kit I could find was 12 board feet. I think that's what messed me up last time. The space I need to fill is the equivalent of 3 cubic feet of foam. My original thinking was 30 board feet and the same mistake I made when I mixed 2 quarts of resin and catalyst at once, D'oh!.

At $3.50 a can on sale it's cheaper to just wear out my trigger finger. This is the large space Right Stuff. Since all the cool kids on the block use it to make the most interesting vehicles, I've learned how shapable it is. ;) I'll attempt to bond the new top panel to the foam with lots of spray contact cement. Good thing my building is 7,000 square feet.

Some asked about application. I like to make a grid and let that harden. The next tightens the grid, and then I fill in. That keeps the thin ply wood inside or aluminum outside from bulging unattractively. For some reason there was little insulation in the back chamber. I may rectify that.



It's coming together nicely. Mid-November for the ladder. That'll be the finishing touch.

Hoping for the new lid next week.
 

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Discussion Starter #76 (Edited)
Laid down some foam grid and let it set for 2 hours and then filled in the blanks.



When I left for the day I had a nice overfill thing going.



I made the "Don't get any on you!" mistake.



I had warmed up the shop to use the foam as recommended. I turned the heat down and went home. We had a real cold snap come on and the radiant heat above the trailer came on and activated the foam to a point where it looked like it was baking bread.



Either I foamed too quickly, or too thick, but voids were filled with unexpanded resin. I scraped out what I could and used the 13th can to fill the voids. Once I scape that to match the curve I can apply the top piece of plywood in preparation for the metal top skin.

Once I have that I will drill the panel for the running lights and install them and their harness. That is all I have to do is slide it into place and secure it. Everything about this trailer is about using full 4x8 sheets of material, whether it be walls, ceilings or floors. The trailer is designed around optimization of material and a minimization of alteration of stock goods. And lightness, lots of lightness.

People have asked about the build quality, but I think it's more about design quality. This trailer was meant to spend its life on the road. It appears to be built for it. It's cleverly built with vinyl corner moldings that allow for movement without the need for caulk. Is it as strong as a stick-built house. No, but properly secured to the ground it could survive a wind event. Where it's being used it can't go too far but I wouldn't want to be in one of these in an open field. I think the structure of the roof is incredibly rigid and, as you see, took a pretty bad hit, but set this tumbling and all bets are off.

 

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You just gave me PTSD. When I was attaching the foam insulation boards to my basement wall at the beginning of my current remodel, I used the DuPont Pro Adhesive foam to glue the XPS boards to the foundation before fastening them...and I learned very quickly that I needed to use gloves while using it. I had some spots on my fingers that did not wash off for months.

I also glued a couple nitrile gloves to my hand at one point as well.

Still enjoying this work!
 

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The repair is coming along nicely.

Had a similar experience filling a cavity with the foam in the can. Too much and the interior areas don't expand, and you just get a gooey splotchy spot. In a way in makes sense, too much and the pressure in the center is too high to allow the interior portions to expand correctly. So you have to go slow and build up in coats, kinda like painting. I have no patience for that, thus my painting is usually not the best, I yield to a professional for painting tasks.
 

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What are dynamic structures?
In my case, amusement park rides. Big pieces of metal subject to high forces and vibrations. Instead of rivets, we tend to use huck bolts, where instead of deforming the fastener, there's a collar that gets swaged to the fastener before the tail is snapped off. Hydraulically set only, because these things get pretty huge.

 

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Discussion Starter #80
In my case, amusement park rides. Big pieces of metal subject to high forces and vibrations. Instead of rivets, we tend to use huck bolts, where instead of deforming the fastener, there's a collar that gets swaged to the fastener before the tail is snapped off. Hydraulically set only, because these things get pretty huge.

That's serious business. That pretty cool how the sleeve turns into a swaged capture device. I can see how hydraulics would come in handy. If I had a big job to do with the Cherry fasteners I's opt fo some type of assistance. I'm always the strongest guy in the garage. Vice-grips for hands, but those rivets required everything I could give. I wear a 3X glove, so size helps.

Getting closer. Who would think that an 18" x 96" piece of 5mm plywood would be a problem, but I guess there's not a lot of call for metric lumber sizes here. I can't believe how stubborn we are to cling onto an anachronistic measuring system.

Chasing down a source of 3/16" Close enough. It's being covered with aluminum, anyway. Once that's done I'm ready for the aluminum lid and ladder.

Everything got incredibly strong.

 
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