[BORA20VT]

I've seen the link to that article and it seems very interesting. I was wondering if anyone has used on their cars and in what concentration...I was thinking of mixing a few gallons of it (4 or 5) in order to get the 100octane plus rating I need to run my newly acquired APR Race program. I would probably mix in about 7-9 oz of ATF just to lubricate the mixture.
4 gallons would yield 99 octane if mixed with 10 gallons of 93 oct.
5 gallons would yield 100.5 octane if mixed with 9 gallons of 93 oct.
6 gallons would yield 102 octane if mixed with 8 gallons of 93 oct.
so on and so forth....
I guess what l'm looking for is a testimonial of someone who's done this and not caused any damage to their motor....I can't see it being a problem since toluene is already found in pump gas....and you're just increasing the concentration and by adding the ATF, you're making it somewhat healthier

at the same time
So let me know anyone......
anyone...???

 

[Boostin20v]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (BORA20VT)

never run APR's Race program on anything but true 100+ octane fuel......
its not recomeneded by them (or anyone else) as it could damage the engine
stu

 

[mrkrad]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (Boostin20v)

contrary to popular belief, mixing of gas is not a matter of pouring some toluene in. I've seen folks blow apart their motors because they think that mixing this much with that much and taking it for a spin around the block = race fuel.

 

[keycom]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (Boostin20v)

Hell, I'd be happy just to find 93 octane around here!

 

[BORA20VT]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (Boostin20v)

what makes 100+ octane fuel different...if they both combust in the same way, why would it be an issue? Not discrediting your point, its a valid and good one. but isn't 100octane=100octane??? Say for instance that the gasoline+toluene+atf mixture doesn't harm the engine....wouldn't then a 100 octane of this "acceptable" mixture work okay with the race program? On the other hand l'm sure you would notice a gain even in the standard 93 octance specific program. Thanks for the quick response by the way.....yu du man Stu. Take Care

PS> Don't mind me today, l had my wisdom teeth extracted and the pain killers aren't making me the most coherent person....next thing l'll ask might be whether filling the tires with helium would make my car faster. HAHA

 

[dbrowne1]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (BORA20VT)

Well, oil companies actually use toluene as an octane enhancer, so I don't think it's unsafe. I added one gallon to my tank in the summer to see if it would help hot weather performance, but I didn't have a VAG-COM to see if there was any timing retard to be cured by using it. I noticed no difference in the butt dyno.
If you aren't seeing any detonation or timing retard, then there is no reason to use it. Your car will not advance timing any farther if you use a higher octane gas UNLESS you have software (like the APR 93 or a race gas program) to tell it to, so it will not help you.

 

[Masonbrick]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (BORA20VT)

Toluene is great stuff. I mix in a gallon with every fillup to get my octane up tp near 93. I feel definite benefits, no detonation now at all. Now on my Volvo 242 Turbo I mix in a 5 gallon drum with every fill to get 100 octane. I run 20psi. thoughEek!. I've been doing it for about 2 years with the 242 and since the end of summer with the GTI. Now if you want, you can use Xylene which is 117 octane but additives are necessary. Toluene is 114 but doesn't need any detergents(atf) or lubricating agent(marvel mystery oil). Go to a paint supply company and see if they have it. I go to Sherwin Williams.


[Modified by Masonbrick, 6:51 PM 2-12-2002]

 

[Gambit]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (mrkrad)

quote:[HR][/HR]contrary to popular belief, mixing of gas is not a matter of pouring some toluene in. I've seen folks blow apart their motors because they think that mixing this much with that much and taking it for a spin around the block = race fuel.[HR][/HR]​

As a Petroleum supply specialist in the army I'd have to disagree - Mixing Toluene at up to 1:2 proportion is completely safe AND it yields exactly 100 octane (when mixed with 93) not to mention I'd rather have my own mix rather than the stuff they pour at the track sometimes... I've used over 20 gallons of Toluene and I'd have to say that the most improvement you get out of it is during hot summer days. Now with APR's 100 octane program - you can take advantage of it year round. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Follow some of the recipes that are out there - some call for a small amount (a pint) of something else but I've never mixed anything but pure Toluene.

 

[TurbingNYC]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (Gambit)

i've mixed some toulene with Sunoco's 94 and to tell you the truth ...i only felt it a little in my dyno butt test....but when i poured the true 100 octane gas in and it mixed with 93 Mobil ..after 20 miles i felt the difference a lot.....especially after 4k rpm....

 

[Sneakyracer]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (BORA20VT)

I used it but also used VP race fuels motorsport 103, noticed almost no diff. , then used VP C12 and woah! gained some torque

 

[rbr20]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (BORA20VT)

I've personally had great success with Toluene. But a few things to consider. When using high amounts of Toluene you will start messing with the overall distillation curve. Basically this is how fast your fuel will vaporize. In the winter this can make for some pour throttle response,and start ups. Your gasoline companies during the winter months, put in more front end or light volatiles, to increase vaporization. So Toluene likes heat and lots of boost as Honda found out in F1 racing back in 1985,netting 1100 [email protected] 11,800rpm from 5.0bar. out of a 1.5 liter engine on 102 octane fuel.

There fuel heat exchanger would range from 25 deg. C to 80 deg. C. depending on if they were in a full power mode or economy mode.They ran blends from 30% Toluene to 84% Good old Rocket Fuel. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

 

[BORA20VT]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (Gambit)

Thanks for the responses....l'm getting the Jetta back from the dealership tomorrow and installing my EVO intake thats been sitting in the dining room staring at me. Give it 100 miles or so to adapt fully to the new mod and stop by Sherwin-Williams and pick up a Drum or two. I'll mix in enough for 96-97oct and run that with the normal 93 octane specific....As soon as my ATP 3inch back arrives and is installed, l'll do the 1:2 mix for 103.5 octane and run the RACE program...l'll keep everyone updated. I'm a little weary of running RACE with the stock exhaust, l'm afraid the high EGTs will kill the poor K03.
Gambit - I take army training with high regard and respect. My father was a captain back in his day. And by you being a petroleum supply specialist, your input carries a lot of weight in my book...thanks again.
Peter
Innovative Racing Technologies

 

[Jman5000]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (BORA20VT)

Are you guys using non-race programs?
Would someadis do me any justice on the track w/a 93oct program?

 

[Gambit]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (BORA20VT)

I'll be honest with you - rbr20 does have a point about mixing it in the winter months but the way I see it if you do 1:3 proprtion (which would yield 98.25 when mixed with 93 octane) shouldn't be a problem considering the fuel companies do such a "great" job winterizing the fuels

btw - your formula must be wrong - here it is simplified so that you can mix anyway you want. Toluene has a octane (R+M/2) rating of 114. So if you were to mix 2 gallons of 93 (2x93=186) + 1 gallon of Toluene (114) you get 300/3gallons= 100 Octane. Making it higher than 100 octane by just adding toluene is not a good idea however.

 

[BORA20VT]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (Gambit)

I miss understood you then Gambit, I'm sorry. I thought you meant half 93 and half Toluene, which then would indeed equal 103.5. But I get it now, you meant 1 part Toluene for every 2 parts 93. That would indeed be 100 octane. Do you think it would be safe to run this 100 octane mixture with APR's race program??? Or should I just fork over the money for a full tank of race fuel?
Thanks again for all the input.

 

[Andrew Stauffer]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (Gambit)

I've run toluene in my knock sensor equipped 2.0 8v 83 GTI with no apparent benefit. I double checked the ignition, everything is working correctly. Then I put a gallon into the tank of my (then) dailydriver 95 Jetta 2.0 with a GIAC chip and it was VERY apparent that I was getting the benefits as the motor rev'd like a 16v. Not quite, but you get the idea. Very noticeable, very nice. Haven't tried it with my 02 GTI yet, though.

 

[Gambit]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (BORA20VT)

Unfortunately I don't have the APR Race program - but considering what it does (I suspect) is to advance the timing to take advanatage of higher octane (anti-knock) rating - I don't see why it wouldn't work. 100 octane is 100 octane (as long as you stay withing the same system for determening octane rating - in the US that's (RON+MON)/2 )

 

[BORA20VT]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (Gambit)

Thanks again, I really appreciate it!!

 

[drm916]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (BORA20VT)

I run toluen sometimes..It makes my car run smoother.....

 

[Irie18Turbo]

Re: Anyone have any experience with Toluene? (drm916)

I hope you guys know that yr dealing with a highly toxic chemical in toluene.
Its more than a proven carcinogenic, among other things. Warn these newbies
before they go screw themselves up messing with the stuff.
I think the sh1t can make u sterile also. Did college chem guys? Toluene=methylbenzene.
Don't believe me? Check it out for yrself.