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Do you think switching from Intel is a good idea?

  • Good Idea

    Votes: 10 32.3%
  • Bad Idea

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • I don't care

    Votes: 16 51.6%
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I don't like this. Not one bit.

https://www.macrumors.com/guide/app...ek's WWDC, Apple,a two-year transition period.

Mac Rumors said:
Apple at WWDC 2020 announced plans to transition away from Intel chips to Macs built with its own Apple Silicon chips starting in late 2020. Apple's custom chips are Arm-based and are similar to the A-series chips used in iPhones and iPads.
You can go read the article yourself. But basically they're going to be using their own silicon again, similar to the chips in the iPhone and iPad. I don't want my Mac apps to look like iPhone apps, but I guess that's the direction they're going. Any iPhone/iPad app will now work on a Mac and vice versa.
 

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I'm fine with it. Apple's chip development is, IMO, outpacing that of Intel, and I think it's hamstringing both their hardware development and unification of operating systems across the board.

That said, I too am always skeptical of cross-platform applications being the singular way forward because I don't trust developers to churn out a good product. See: Photoshop for iPad.
 

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I don't like this. Not one bit.

https://www.macrumors.com/guide/app...ek's WWDC, Apple,a two-year transition period.



You can go read the article yourself. But basically they're going to be using their own silicon again, similar to the chips in the iPhone and iPad. I don't want my Mac apps to look like iPhone apps, but I guess that's the direction they're going. Any iPhone/iPad app will now work on a Mac and vice versa.
macOS applications don't run on iOS and vice versa. Apple started with the Motorola 68000 before shifting to the PowerPC. The Intel shift was much more recent. It's the operating system that matters, not the underlying CPU. The latest ARM technology paired with a graphics coprocessor is plenty snappy enough to keep up with Adobe software which is the whole point of buying an Apple machine. As I understand it, it was lousy QA on recent Intel silicon that pushed Apple over the edge. I've run into that in my career. Your product is totally unshippable until the chip vendor fixes the problem or you come up with a work-around. It can take 6+ months to re-spin silicon to fix a fatal bug. That's 6 months of lost sales.

ARM + Linux is now plenty good enough to displace Intel + Win 10. I don't run Office on my personal machine. When this dies, I don't need to replace it with an Intel/Windows laptop. All I do is email, web browser, spreadsheet, and view occasional .docx, .pdf, and .ppt docs.
 

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Vertical integration results in a better end product in most examples I can think of.

Renault F1 Team aside :laugh:
 

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I don't care, never buying a Mac. But I guess its good; it gives them something to differentiate themselves from a PC, and thus giving them a reason to charge their stupid prices.
 

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We bought a MacBook Air when the whole lockdown thing started because my daughter needed a way to do distance learning school stuff. My wife and I have windows laptops from work.

And honestly, 75% of my recreational computing is done via my iPhone Max, 20% done via iPad, and 5% on the laptop. I just don’t find it that useful for web browsing. It is good at managing pictures though.

So mark me down as

 

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The less and less Apple relies on vendors for hardware, the more and more control they have over their entire ecosystem, and I'm not a fan.

Their current T2 security chips are no longer allowing you to format from external media. You have to use their network restore, and that only gives you the most current OS and the OS the box shipped with.

Their previous chips wouldn't let you roll a machine back to an older OS if the chip was manufactured after the release of a newer OS.

What that means, is they are making it impossible for fed.gov engineers to deploy these things. All the compliance software is usually a year behind so you can't use the latest hardware because you can't roll it back.

These things are turning more and more into iOS-type locked down security, as in sooner or later, you'll probably only be able to use software that exists in the app store - which is going to be very hard to system engineers to make these things compliant with the DISA STIG.
 

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My only question - will AMS equipped Macs still allow users to dual-boot iOS/Windows.
 

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macOS applications don't run on iOS and vice versa. Apple started with the Motorola 68000 before shifting to the PowerPC. The Intel shift was much more recent. It's the operating system that matters, not the underlying CPU. The latest ARM technology paired with a graphics coprocessor is plenty snappy enough to keep up with Adobe software which is the whole point of buying an Apple machine. As I understand it, it was lousy QA on recent Intel silicon that pushed Apple over the edge. I've run into that in my career. Your product is totally unshippable until the chip vendor fixes the problem or you come up with a work-around. It can take 6+ months to re-spin silicon to fix a fatal bug. That's 6 months of lost sales.

ARM + Linux is now plenty good enough to displace Intel + Win 10. I don't run Office on my personal machine. When this dies, I don't need to replace it with an Intel/Windows laptop. All I do is email, web browser, spreadsheet, and view occasional .docx, .pdf, and .ppt docs.
This. If Apple's chip is capable of running the OS, that's all that matters.

Andy Ihnatko does a weekly segment on Boston Public Radio and he discussed this. Development started a couple of years ago due Intel's incremental development versus Apple's requirement for more advances and Intel always put Apple last in line as they represent only 5% of their business.
 

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Did you mean macOS/Windows?

The answer to Windows is "No". Gonna need VMWare or Parallels to run a Windows OS.
Whoops.

Yeah, I meant macOS/Windows.

VMWare is used today, so that's really what I was referring to.
 

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Whoops.

Yeah, I meant macOS/Windows.

VMWare is used today, so that's really what I was referring to.
Ah, OK. The dual-boot usually refers to Bootcamp, where you have to pick one or the other at start up. That's what they are no longer supporting.

We already have to sign and verify our custom installers (since all some vendors give us is a pile of files and an executable to get their compliance stuff on the Macs, or if we want to script in some settings/disable updates, etc) with Apple so they will work with 10.15. I see nothing but a headache in the future.
 

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Ah, OK. The dual-boot usually refers to Bootcamp, where you have to pick one or the other at start up. That's what they are no longer supporting.

We already have to sign and verify our custom installers (since all some vendors give us is a pile of files and an executable to get their compliance stuff on the Macs, or if we want to script in some settings/disable updates, etc) with Apple so they will work with 10.15. I see nothing but a headache in the future.
Schooled - thanks.

I'd love to switch to Apple (in some ways).

I only really need a Win machine for VCDS.....
 

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I'm not feeling too optimistic. I had a dual-processor Power Mac G4 and was managing a lab of 50+ computers during the PowerPC > Intel transition in 2005 and it wasn't terribly pleasant.

I watched the keynote and looks like it's gonna be essentially a repeat of what was announced in 2005, except now they're moving to hopped up mobile chips instead of switching from a stale range of processors (PowerPC) to a full range of desktop and server chips. The emulation sucked, there were lots of random errors and crashes and despite the promises of years of support, the PowerPC machines were pretty much instantly damaged goods. Even though there were (and will be) universal versions of programs that work on both architectures, most new features in new software were restricted to some kind of technical aspect of the new hardware, so it suddenly made you feel like your $2000 computer was a boat anchor.

Microsoft Office was TERRIBLE on the Intel Macs for probably a year. Some software took years to make the transition (like the former industry-standard QuarkXPress which took FOREVER... that is when Adobe really took off since InDesign was ready pretty much at launch) and other smaller developers just stopped supporting the Mac.

I'm guessing Hackintoshes are probably done, but toward the end of the PowerPC era they did shift to industry-standard parts like slots, interfaces, RAM and hard drives so hopefully that continues. They have made a few concessions with all-integrated stuff recently, like having socketed RAM on the Mac Minis so I hope they keep going down that road. With the old beige G3 Power Macs, just about everything was proprietary... but the blue G3s and G4s/G5s had USB, PCI slots, standard RAM, and IDE/SATA hard drives instead of weird NuBus expansion slots, Apple Desktop Bus keyboards and mice, SCSI hard drives and peripherals, which was nice and made upgrades a lot cheaper.

This is what I had (Dual 450 MHz PowerPC processors) in college and it was such a great design with the motherboard on the fold-down door. I wish they would make something like this again. It had the unique processors but had standard everything inside otherwise and was designed to be easy to work on and upgrade.

 

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Discussion Starter #16
Did you mean macOS/Windows?

The answer to Windows is "No". Gonna need VMWare or Parallels to run a Windows OS.
Also not very happy about this.

I like Bootcamp for simplicity of it. I can get native hardware support in Windows, which makes things like.... Oh, I don't know, using VCDS on my MBP a piece of cake. Or any other piece of hardware for that matter. With no virtualization in the way it makes things much easier.

Parallels and VMWare are great for running a particular application here and there if you don't need to use any finicky hardware with it. One of my clients had a Mac Pro and they had some old thermal label software on the computer it was replacing. The software was custom built for them, and the developer no longer around to help. It was obviously a Windows only application, and it was super picky about hardware (the printer). Getting the software to open in Parallels was a piece of cake, started right up. Getting the printer to work with the software running in a virtual environment? Hah.

After putting 30+ hours into fixing it I made them buy a $500 laptop to use when they needed the printer, which wasn't very often. Pain in the ass. If they would have just let me install W10 on the Mac Pro using Bootcamp it would have been a piece of cake. Restart to Windows, open software, print label.

Nope, too complicated.
 

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This is what I had (Dual 450 MHz PowerPC processors) in college and it was such a great design with the motherboard on the fold-down door. I wish they would make something like this again. It had the unique processors but had standard everything inside otherwise and was designed to be easy to work on and upgrade.

Apple was ahead of the curve when it came to maintenance. Back in HS and summers during college, I worked computer retail, and one of my tasks was installing and replacing hardware. Macs were a lot faster to do.
I can't seem to remember the model, it was early PowerPC, but you slide the case off, and the left and right sides folded up and away to give you access to the main board beneath.
 

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I choose Not care because I am not an Apple user BUT...

I see this Intel "failure" (from decade long laziness) not only lost one of Intel's biggest customer (Apple), it also created one of the biggest competition for Intel's (and AMD) future.

I see this level of failure is same as Nintendo/Sony partnership failure and created Playstation and forever change the console market.

Intel you will PAY for it.
 
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