[[email protected]]

For the Mk5/6 VW's I can see this, but when I was looking at my bay to see if I needed that breather hose, I found it interesting to see where the factory snorkel-looking thing terminates, that there's no opening to the outside. It is blocked (not sealed) buy grill shrouding.

Plus the TT hood "clamshells" over this area quite a bit. You're not getting the same ram-air effect that the intake may offer w/the VW design.

I have faith in the APR products (heck I ordered one) so I'm not stating this to shoot down anything. Just pointing out it is a little different. Would this affect the engineering data below or not?

The TT scoops air lower down in the grill. It's not 100% identical to the GTI, however the new graph below was recorded on an Audi TT with the new TSI Valvelift engine. It's a huge improvement towards simplifying the entire system.

 

[996cab]

Sure, well, let's just discuss the carbonio intake design first.

Carbonio
Air enters the intake plenum through the leading edge of the hood via the air intake ducting. Air fills the plenum, travels through the filter, and goes on it's way to the turbocharger. It's a straight shot and air comes from outside of the hot engine bay.

Factory Intake

Air enters through the leading edge of the hood via the air intake duct. All air is diverted to the engine bay and the intake duct is divided in half. A hole in the bottom of the air intake duct allows engine bay air to suck up into the intake tract. The air is then sucked up and around down to the bottom of the intake box. It's then routed through baffles and comes up through the intake filter. From there its sucked through a hole and into the intake ducting that goes to the turbocharger. It's a complex non straight shot of air that mixes fresh air from outside of the engine bay with air from inside the engine bay. It's extremely restrictive, but it satisfies many different vehicles / engines with one part, and makes the intake quiet since turbo noises would scare most non mechanically inclined drivers into thinking their was a duck in the engine bay. ; )

Here's data collected by an engineering student on the stock intake system vs the carbonio system:

6000 RPM air velocity (FPM) over 1.5 seconds (Higher is better)

Stock: ~3000 FPM
Carbonio: ~3500 FPM

Pressure Difference (kPa) over 1.5 seconds (Lower is better)

Stock: ~44 kPa
Carbonio: ~-1 kPa

The pressure difference with the factory intake system is huge, while the carbonio intake system is straight through and free flowing. This is why we see such a large power difference, expecially once turbocharger boost pressure is increased.

Arin, thx for taking the time to explain...I certainly get it.

For me, I just want the Carbonio kit in the TT-RS engine bay to compliment the OEM carbon for those of us who optioned the speed limiter de-restrictor.

I see the Carbonio as a 'trophy' girlfriend...if it happens to offer other 'benefits' then great and happy days...!

I want it for the looks like I would want a 'trophy' girlfriend for her looks...yep am shallow...

 

[[email protected]]

Well we have a trophy in development for you now with a large filter and matching TT RS Carbon Fiber pattern!

 

[OrangeA4]

Is this part a fit for TTS as well, or should I be looking at the Forge twintake design?

 

[[email protected]]

Is this part a fit for TTS as well, or should I be looking at the Forge twintake design?

This one is not for the TTS unfortunately. The VWR system may fit, but we have not tested it.

 

[Marty]

Sure, well, let's just discuss the carbonio intake design first.

Carbonio
Air enters the intake plenum through the leading edge of the hood via the air intake ducting. Air fills the plenum, travels through the filter, and goes on it's way to the turbocharger. It's a straight shot and air comes from outside of the hot engine bay.

Factory Intake

Air enters through the leading edge of the hood via the air intake duct. All air is diverted to the engine bay and the intake duct is divided in half. A hole in the bottom of the air intake duct allows engine bay air to suck up into the intake tract. The air is then sucked up and around down to the bottom of the intake box. It's then routed through baffles and comes up through the intake filter. From there its sucked through a hole and into the intake ducting that goes to the turbocharger. It's a complex non straight shot of air that mixes fresh air from outside of the engine bay with air from inside the engine bay. It's extremely restrictive, but it satisfies many different vehicles / engines with one part, and makes the intake quiet since turbo noises would scare most non mechanically inclined drivers into thinking their was a duck in the engine bay. ; )

Here's data collected by an engineering student on the stock intake system vs the carbonio system:

6000 RPM air velocity (FPM) over 1.5 seconds (Higher is better)

Stock: ~3000 FPM
Carbonio: ~3500 FPM

Pressure Difference (kPa) over 1.5 seconds (Lower is better)

Stock: ~44 kPa
Carbonio: ~-1 kPa

The pressure difference with the factory intake system is huge, while the carbonio intake system is straight through and free flowing. This is why we see such a large power difference, expecially once turbocharger boost pressure is increased.

Hey Arin, thanks for the details and the link. After reviewing the data, I don't think it can be trusted without further clarification. Specifically, I'm a bit confused by that student's measurements / presentation. For example, he says the following data is for "2nd gear 6000 RPM":

But what does "2nd gear 6000 RPM" mean for data that is taken over a 1.5 second interval? When accelerating while floored in 2nd gear at 6000 RPM, your RPM will change substantially over a 1.5 second interval. Or is he left-foot-braking while holding the car floored at 6000 RPM in 2nd gear steady-state? Who knows, but if it's not carefully well-controlled or explained, how can you trust the comparison data.

Things get even more suspicious with the "3rd gear 30 mph accel to 80 mph shift at 6000 rpm" data:

What does "30 mph accel to 80 mph shift at 6000 rpm" even mean?! He's showing about 2.5 seconds worth of data, which is far less time than it takes to accelerate from 30-80 mph. But then he says "at 6000 rpm". Well, he's also accelerate right past 6000 RPM more quickly than just 2.5 seconds. To further confuse things, the air velocity data seems to start from some lower number, and then within less than half a second jump up to the approximately steady-state value for the ~2.5 seconds of data acquisition. Again, what does this data represent? Is he left-foot-braking in 3rd gear at 6000 rpm? If so, what the heck does the "30 mph accel to 80 mph shift" have to do with anything?

The explanation and numbers make no sense... yet everyone seems to say the data is so great.

He should have validated his setup by taking airflow and pressure drop data in various scenarios (idle, low-load vs. RPM, high-load vs. RPM, etc.) to prove his setup was actually functioning correctly. For all we know, he wasn't correctly measuring air speed or pressure, since there's no data to back it up.

If we assume for a minute that the pressure drop data is valid (and that the student just couldn't explain the experimental setup clearly), then yes, the stock Mk6 airbox is massively restrictive given the ~8 psi drop at high air speeds.


But if you want to loan me a TT-RS APR Carbonio intake, I would be happy to actually take this data more professionally and report back with some thorough analysis.

 

[Marty]

I guess nobody carefully read through his data in that other thread. :\

Regardless of the inconsistencies in the labeling of the data, if the OEM airbox really has an ~8 psi pressure drop while the APR Carbonio is ~0 psi (measured at the same point), then I believe that the gains being advertised are possible.

Hey Arin, when do you think the TT-RS intakes will become available? I'm very interested in repeating this testing.

 

[boarderjcj]

I have a 2011 2.0 TFSI base TT. Trying to install the Carbonio intake...

How the do you remove the bottom half of the air box?

See circled areas in picture:

 

[qtroCUB]

I have a 2011 2.0 TFSI base TT. Trying to install the Carbonio intake...

How the do you remove the bottom half of the air box?

See circled areas in picture:

I think you just pull up. That's how it was on the TTS and 3.2.

 

[myquitacre]

Here's my picture of the Carbonio install...

Thanks alot Carbonio for not making the Stage 2 piping to prevent this from happening! D!cks

 

[myquitacre]

I had to go to the auto parts store and buy a 3" diameter exhaust pipe and cut the ring out of it to prevent the flimsy OEM pipe from collapsing. I emailed Carbonio about this and they didn't give a sh!t about engineering their product for the TT to prevent this. I told them they could easily alter the Stage 2 piping that are used on other VW/Audi models by just removing the hose port (for the hose connections the TT does NOT have) and extending the piping a little more. They said "we have no plans to make a stage 2 pipe for the TT"

 

[myquitacre]

I wish I would have known at the time that A.W.E. sells a carbon intake for our cars that has the piping all the way back to the turbo. It's actually about $20 cheaper than the Carbonio stage 1 and stage 2 combined (if Carbonio made a stage 2 for our cars that is)

 

[boarderjcj]

I wish I would have known at the time that A.W.E. sells a carbon intake for our cars that has the piping all the way back to the turbo. It's actually about $20 cheaper than the Carbonio stage 1 and stage 2 combined (if Carbonio made a stage 2 for our cars that is)

I don't know about that. The AWE kit is $479.95 plus shipping as of today. I picked my Carbonio up for $130 less than that with all the necessities.

 

[Quisp]

I am not sure abouit the numbers that were quoted by the tester. I know that there are potential gains to be had over the stock intake because I was tinkering with some ideas i had about changing the intake and the last time i had my car dynoed i opend up the lid on the intake area just before it goes into the filter box. By popping that little lid the car gained 8 hp over the previous dyno pull.
The stock TT RS intake is twisted and gets most of its air from in the engine bay rather than the outside cooler air. It was sugggested that the reason there is the large opening on the intake from the front of the car leading to thet engine bay was to assist in cooling , then the air is sucked back in through the opening under the airbox and used again(but it is a much higher temp)
I can see where a more direct flow with less air loss tothe engine and less hot air brought back in could definitley benefit a turbo engine like the tt rs. How much of a benefit I am not sure.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks alot Carbonio for not making the Stage 2 piping to prevent this from happening! D!cks

What???? Bit harsh?

Do you have any idea how much it cost to make a carbon fiber intake system?

It's not like fabrication. You don't just make a part and it cost what it cost to make the part... you need to invest thousands of dollars into tooling. Tooling is used to then create the molds for creating the intake system. It's a lengthy process, and its expensive.

The back pipe is mainly for ascetics. It looks good. It does a little more, but it's mainly for looks. The market simply Is not there to justify making the part. I know this by the number of TT brackets we've sold.

[EDIT / UPDATE]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...he-Audi-TT&p=81530879&viewfull=1#post81530879

As boarderjcj just pointed out, you need to install the hard OEM plastic piece to prevent the tube from crushing.

 

[myquitacre]

I understand it costs them money to make a new mold, but if they're not going to make the back pipe, why would they sell the stage 1 intake box if its going to cause the OEM tube to buckle?

 

[[email protected]]

I understand it costs them money to make a new mold, but if they're not going to make the back pipe, why would they sell the stage 1 intake box if its going to cause the OEM tube to buckle?

Our test cars had no problem with the tube buckling. Perhaps the clamp was tightened too much, crushing the OEM hose? Try backing off the clamp a little.

 

[myquitacre]

oh well that would male sense, except there is no hose clamp attached in this pic. It buckled as soon as I put the silicone coupler on over it:

 

[[email protected]]

Strange. I don't know!

 

[JohnLZ7W]

Maybe check diameters of the intake pipe and silicone coupler to see if perhaps the wrong part was shipped? Or maybe there are variances on the intake pipe?