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are CVTs only for weaker engines?

1.8K views 30 replies 20 participants last post by  CARkeys  
#1 ·
or are there some high powered ones..
I know that Coulthard was testing a CVT F1 car in the early 90s, but then the banned it in racing. now I only hear of them on weaker engines, like the honda insight...
 
#2 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (dj_wawa)

Audi uses it in the new A4. It is only available with Front-Trak. A Quattro version should be released soon. They were originally developed only for weaker engines because the belts could only handle so much stress before deforming or breaking.
 
#3 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (Rice_Box[Sentra])

Williams-Renault CVT Test Car
(Exposed during CVT'99 Congress in Eindhoven)
Image

David Coulthard was testing this car equiped with Williams-Van Doorne CVT in 1993 and had very good results.
FIA banned CVT from F-1 in 1994.
and the A4 sedan multitronic™ Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) has a whole 6 ratio "fake" manual thing going on with it,are there any pure CVT only trannies?



[Modified by dj_wawa, 10:16 AM 2-24-2003]
 
#4 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (dj_wawa)

i don't even want to know how much that tranny would cost to replace!
my guess: way too much, just learn to drive a stick
Image

obin
 
#6 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (A4Jetta)

Yeah, the Murano uses only a CVT. No stick, no traditional auto. That is on a slightly detuned version of their famous V6. Cool tranny though. I test drove one. Stomping on the gas at a stop light is a bit to get used to with no shift points. Pretty cool!
Stan...
 
#7 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (srodgers)

quote:[HR][/HR]Yeah, the Murano uses only a CVT. No stick, no traditional auto. That is on a slightly detuned version of their famous V6. Cool tranny though. I test drove one. Stomping on the gas at a stop light is a bit to get used to with no shift points. Pretty cool!
Stan...[HR][/HR]​
I rode along in the A6 Avant 2.5TDI Multitronic of my friends parents, and it feels slower, because you won't hear the engine rev. Actually the revs climb in 2 stages, to prevent wheelspin.
 
#8 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (A4Jetta)

The first CVTs were mated to low-power (or, more accurately, low-torque) engines. SUbaru had one with the Justy, and Honda had one available with the 92-95 hatch.
Only recently has technology progressed to allow the boxes to handle the torque of a V6. As already pointed out, most of the challenge lies in developing a belt system that does not deform under high torque loads.
As time goes on, CVTs will become stouter, and will be mated to stronger motors (and by extension become more commonplace). The Nissan box is the strongest out there right now as it has to handle the torque of the VQ35DE 3.5 V6.
 
#11 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (dj_wawa)

quote:[HR][/HR]and the A4 sedan multitronic™ Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) has a whole 6 ratio "fake" manual thing going on with it,are there any pure CVT only trannies?[HR][/HR]​
Audi's is a pure CVT, the ratios are what's fake. You can turn those off with a flick of the switch.
 
#14 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (RoadDevelopment)

ok, so the nissan CVT sounds pretty cool
now how does this sound; Wawa's Westfield Renesis CVT http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
give me 7 years and it'll be on the road
Image
Image
Image
(no seriously)...
Image
 
#15 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (2002_Jetta_GLI)

Xtronic and Xtroid don't have torque converters, that's why they are CVTs.
On Xtronic, it has D-Ds-L for downshift. On Multitronic, it has 6-5-4-3-2-1. A total of 6 artifical gears.
 
#16 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (A4Jetta)

my friend has an hx civic with the cvt trans. it's just plain weird to hear with his exhaust. from a start, you just hear the exhaust keep going and going and no shifting... then if he's going to high enough in rpm, the vtec kicks in...
i definitely think it sounds weird cause of how the exhaust not just keeps getitng higher and higher with acceleration, but no shifting
 
#20 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (JPawn1)

quote:[HR][/HR]Didn't subaru have a cvt? I remember sitting in one in the passenger seat, getting up to 60 and never feeling a shift at all
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[HR][/HR]​
I had one in my Subaru Justy (weak engine? 76 hp
Image
)
 
#21 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (dj_wawa)

quote:[HR][/HR]ok, so the nissan CVT sounds pretty cool
now how does this sound; Wawa's Westfield Renesis CVT http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
give me 7 years and it'll be on the road
Image
Image
Image
(no seriously)...
Image
[HR][/HR]​
Oh yeah, I'm waiting to see it!!!!!
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It's been done before (without the CVT): http://www.monito.com/wankel/convert-other.html
 
#22 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (dj_wawa)

Just for the sake of completeness ...
First CVT ever was on a 1960s Dutch car called the Daf, a company that was later incorporated into Volvo and is now, I suppose, part of the Ford Premier Group. Daf gearshifts just had two positions - Forward and Reverse - though I think some of them had low-ratio holds to take full advantage of their 40bhp or whatever it was. I somehow doubt this car ever made it to the US market ....
Daf CVTs ran on rubber bands so there would have been no question of putting high torque through them. Nowadays the bands have been replaced by metal V-section belts which can cope with much greater torque.
Being banned by F1 usually means CVTs are a good idea! There was an F3 car fitted with a CVT in the early 1970s but I don't think it ever raced, though it was certainly tested. Bob Judd's novel "Formula One" includes an automatic transmission car which seems like a CVT - it was written when people were thinking about using CVTs, so a couple of years before the ban came into force. The ban isn't specific - the actual ruling is that you can't have more than seven distinct ratios, whereas a CVT has thousands and thousands of them. Production CVT cars with sequential shift options simply isolate six or seven of those ratios. As one UK journalist wrote, "what's the point of building a continuously variable transmission and then prevent it from continuously varying?"
 
#23 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (CARkeys)

quote:[HR][/HR]Just for the sake of completeness ...
First CVT ever was on a 1960s Dutch car called the Daf, a company that was later incorporated into Volvo and is now, I suppose, part of the Ford Premier Group. Daf gearshifts just had two positions - Forward and Reverse - though I think some of them had low-ratio holds to take full advantage of their 40bhp or whatever it was. I somehow doubt this car ever made it to the US market ....
Daf CVTs ran on rubber bands so there would have been no question of putting high torque through them. Nowadays the bands have been replaced by metal V-section belts which can cope with much greater torque.[HR][/HR]​
Those DAF's were called "old-wifes-jet" or "suspender-racer" over here.....
Image

This is it (the Variomatic):
Image

The cars looked like this:
Image

Funny fact: the car did 85mph in both directions. They even had a reverse-racing-cup over here.
And DAF also made a real F3-racecar with a Variomatic:
Image

Image

Later on the transmission was also used by Volvo in the 340:
Image


More info:
http://www.classic-daf.nl
http://www.ritzsite.demon.nl/DAF/DAF_cars_intro.htm
 
#24 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (MartijnGizmo)

Didn't they start out on snowmobiles?
The Audi system has 6 "fake" ratios programmed in the computer so you can shift it tiptronic style. Makes one think of the possiblity of having F1 type paddle shifters connected to a CVT where you could hook up your laptop and create your own ratios to shift through. Could be amusing to program in a close ratio 8 speed.
 
#25 ·
Re: are CVTs only for weaker engines? (beerman2000122)

quote:[HR][/HR]The Audi system has 6 "fake" ratios programmed in the computer so you can shift it tiptronic style. Makes one think of the possiblity of having F1 type paddle shifters connected to a CVT where you could hook up your laptop and create your own ratios to shift through. Could be amusing to program in a close ratio 8 speed.[HR][/HR]​
The fake gears are also great when you're towing a trailer, as it gives you the possibility to brake on the engine.....