[Mr. Bigglesworth]

In their current state, are driver's licenses in most states really worth anything? Outside of using them to vote and buy alcohol, both of which can be done with a state ID, what's the point?

The written tests in most states are a joke, as are the driving portions of the tests. There's no recurring training, no actual real driving training of any kid, outside of demonstrating your knowledge of traffic that you learned during the written test.... So why bother?

Fairly certain that anyone coming of legal driving age could learn everything they need to by simply spending a few months behind the wheel under parental supervision. Which is seemingly how most learn to drive anyways, the written and practical tests almost seem like a tax at this point. If they're not actually going to teach anyone basic driving dynamics, even simple things, like not lifting when ABS modulates, it largely seems like a waste of time.

I see two options, either do away with it, or bring in better driver education, how does TCL feel?

 

[BryanH]

The amount of people around here (NoVa) that don't have them and get by on all cash is crazy.

 

[Senior Member]

how does TCL feel?

Better than the average licensed driver.

 

[MandatoryOutsidePossum]

I didn't learn anything important in driver's ed, and with no re-education needed to maintain my license, yes. They're pointless. I bet there is objectively no difference in driver skill between people who drive with drivers licenses and people who drive but have never had one.

 

[Smigelski]

In their current state, are driver's licenses in most states really worth anything? Outside of using them to vote and buy alcohol, both of which can be done with a state ID, what's the point?

The written tests in most states are a joke, as are the driving portions of the tests. There's no recurring training, no actual real driving training of any kid, outside of demonstrating your knowledge of traffic that you learned during the written test.... So why bother?

Fairly certain that anyone coming of legal driving age could learn everything they need to by simply spending a few months behind the wheel under parental supervision. Which is seemingly how most learn to drive anyways, the written and practical tests almost seem like a tax at this point. If they're not actually going to teach anyone basic driving dynamics, even simple things, like not lifting when ABS modulates, it largely seems like a waste of time.

I see two options, either do away with it, or bring in better driver education, how does TCL feel?

Some states have a rule where you have to spend X hours of driving instruction with a certified driving school instructor in addition to classroom hours before you get your driver's license. So there is real instruction/training going on. In addition to the classroom/instruction, there are also requirements to drive around for a certain number of hours with a licensed driver in the passenger seat.

So there is instruction/driving as well as spending a few months behind the wheel with the parents.

Here's the rules for Maryland:

Also, as crappy as driver's licenses requirements are. People do fail the test, so they are at least doing something, however minimal.

This all being said, retraining and the quality of the training we are getting are real concerns.

 

[Sold Over Sticker]

If there’s a minimum amount of instruction required, and a test to pass, then there is a hysterically low standard to perform to. Kinda like needing to pass the ASVAB with a 27. Drool might be pouring from the corner of your mouth, but at least you met some kind of basic standard.

 

[Smigelski]

Having said all of the above, I do highly recommend courses like Tire Rack Street Survival School. It's a really good school that teaches 100% emergency braking, both dry and wet skidpad performance, slides, emergency maneuvers, etc. I've taught at a few of these schools locally and it's absolutely amazing how much certain things 'click' in the students' brains when they see what happens in emergency situations and how to deal with them.

 

[Bazooka]

The license is a document to show another driver that you at least did something to qualify for one. Vision test, basic motor skills etc.
In a crash I would rather have a legitimate driver license shown vs a state id. Plus if they have had a lot of problems driving and are on a suspended license, I want to know that vs a state id..

 

[Sold Over Sticker]

Having said all of the above, I do highly recommend courses like Tire Rack Street Survival School. It's a really good school that teaches 100% emergency braking, both dry and wet skidpad performance, slides, emergency maneuvers, etc. I've taught at a few of these schools locally and it's absolutely amazing how much certain things 'click' in the students' brains when they see what happens in emergency situations and how to deal with them.

I’ve been told that these things are meaningless because traffic laws aren’t enforced.

 

[Hostile]

About 20 years ago I had to re-take the written test because I had accumulated so many points from speeding tickets that they wouldn't renew my license re-testing.

I went in on my test day smug as hell and ended up failing because I got a bunch of esoteric road signs I'd never seen before. I had to re-take it a week later. I passed that time.

My point is, the written test was basically filled with gotchas that you only would know by memorizing the driver's manual and not from actually driving.

My behind-the-wheel test in high school was pathetic. It was 4 right turns through a neighborhood, one of which was onto a one-way street where they would fail you if you asked which way to go. I didn't even have to parallel park.

 

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Having said all of the above, I do highly recommend courses like Tire Rack Street Survival School. It's a really good school that teaches 100% emergency braking, both dry and wet skidpad performance, slides, emergency maneuvers, etc. I've taught at a few of these schools locally and it's absolutely amazing how much certain things 'click' in the students' brains when they see what happens in emergency situations and how to deal with them.

You know how useful it would be to handle a minor hydroplane without over correcting and potentially wrapping your car around the tree?

Doesn't matter, if we had cops they would have made sure there was no water on the road to begin with.

 

[Sold Over Sticker]

You know how useful it would be to handle a minor hydroplane without over correcting and potentially wrapping your car around the tree?

Doesn't matter, if we had cops they would have made sure there was no water on the road to begin with.

Back the Blue.

 

[AZGolf]

If I had to choose between drivers not having a license, or not having insurance, I'd rather they not have a license. However:

Think about it: if you get hit by somebody with a perfectly valid driver's license but no insurance, you're just as out of luck as if they had 23 points and a 3 year suspended license. However, if you could insure a vehicle without a license (which Google says no state allows) then at least everyone would be in better shape when they get hit since that unlicensed driver would have insurance.

 

[Senior Member]

My MIL got her license back after banging 3 cars while trying to park and losing it for a while. 2 days after she passed the "driving test", she plowed the neighbors trash can and drove away like nothing happened.

 

[The_Real_Stack]

The actual driver’s test is kinda pointless but when I grew up in CT it was 16 + 6 months on a learners permit to get your license, or 4 months if you took driver’s Ed. Driver’s Ed was something like 20 hours of classroom instruction and 8 or 10 hours of road time. The classroom instruction was dumb, but the road time was at least experience if nothing else. Also, my parents were really good about having me drive EVERYWHERE during my permit period (and I begged them to let me. Grocery store, going to grandma’s, whatever, I went because it meant I could drive). By the time you got to the road test the test itself was dumb, but everything leading up to that was pretty valuable.

 

[DneprDave]

On the whole, people drive pretty well, considering the number of morons out there.

 

[bzcat]

In their current state, are driver's licenses in most states really worth anything? Outside of using them to vote and buy alcohol, both of which can be done with a state ID, what's the point?

I thought you can use your gun license for that?

 

[The_Real_Stack]

I thought you can use your gun license for that?

You can.

 

[The_Real_Stack]

On the whole, people drive pretty well, considering the number of morons out there.

Especially if you remember some silly percentage (66%?) of fatalities include DUI, no seatbelt, or both. So buckle up, don’t drive drunk, and try not to be on the road when the drunks are (late night) and your chances are pretty good.

 

[2 doors]

I’ve been told that these things are meaningless because traffic laws aren’t enforced.

You know how useful it would be to handle a minor hydroplane without over correcting and potentially wrapping your car around the tree?

Doesn't matter, if we had cops they would have made sure there was no water on the road to begin with.

Nice of you two to belittle and conflate two different things.