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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For example its fopah(spelled that wrong) with the e30 m3 to do a swap of say an m5 engine, the purists would rather burn the car. Is the audi community like this? It seams to me that it is not but im still curious,.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (NVmyVW)

I think you mean "faux pas" (fo-pahh)

There are some purists, but usually it is for the 5-cylinder motor. The old 5s have great character and they are widely interchangeable, so some swaps do occur.
An example - the Ur-Quattro is one of the most revered Audis produced to date. Rare, but not exceptionally so. Pretty much the only "acceptable" swap is a 20v turbo (they came stock with a 10vt) but a lot of people are very dedicated to keeping the UrQ 100% factory stock.
And of course, there are the rare limited production cars like the Sport Quattro, with its 217? total produced and a 306hp 2.1L 20vt. Also the RS2, with its 315hp 2.2L 20vt (and thats also 10 years later, maybe they did something right in the SportQ
). No one ever swaps anything into either of these cars because they are considered to be the epitome of the 5-cylinder era. Other than those I've listed, there aren't any Audis good enough to be a real purist on!!

No offense to the non Ur-Q/SportQ/RS2 owners out there. I don't own any of them so feel free to make fun of me for not being a purist!
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (billzcat1)

Audi 5-cylinder is just an awesome motor. Unique engine sound and great torque characteristics.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (A4Jetta)

I'm going to look at it from another angle. I saw somewhere, and sorry, I can't recall the source, that over 25% of Audi owners do something to their car- some sort of modification- be it mild or wild.
BMW and Mercedes owners didn't have those kind of numbers.
In general, I think Audi owners are more open to change, and more creative in their approach to having their cars reflect their tastes.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (JasBQwik)

I can agree with that. I see a lot of modified Audis, quite a few modified Bimmers, and next to no modified Benzos.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (billzcat1)

Whereas on the BMW side, the E30 M3 4 banger, the E36 (??) I6 and maybe the M5 V8 are held high, in Audi land, the 2.2l 20vt is pretty much the holy grail of Audi motors. People try to buy cars with it in it, or they swap it into their cars. One of the bet things about the 3B/AAN motors is that mods are still being produced today. No one buys a '91 200tq and swaps in a 10v 5cyl t or even a 4.2l V8 (there isn't much use since the V8 sedan was practically the same size, and a few 3.6l V8s had 5-speeds). Just as no one buys a UrS4 or S6 to put in a V8, even though they came with 4.2l V8, 6-speeds in Europe.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (billzcat1)

I think it depends on the pristine-ness and the rareness. Domestically (i.e. stateside) there weren't many truly rare cars. The UrQ comes to mind, but not a whole lot else. There are rare color combos or small production numbers on certain things, but mainly those weren't bought by collectors, so they all got driven and are no longer pristine.
I've been wanting to build a 4KQ for years, and actually found one with 25k miles on it and another with 40k miles. My criteria were a silver '84 (old bodystyle). Since I want to modify it pretty heavily, I couldn't bring myself to buy those cars, even though they were in GREAT shape and not horribly priced. I ended up with a 200k car that has a bit of rust.
I guess that sort of makes me a softcore purist. I can't bring myself to butcher a pristine car, but heavily modding a car that's done its duty... well that's another story.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (NVmyVW)

For the urquattro which is an excellent car to restore, there are many very reasonable and responsible upgrades that should be done to a 1983 urquattro to make it better while still keeping it original. What I mean by that is the person doing the restoration should only remove and improve what isn't really working in the original design. For instance, its widely believed that the electrical system on the 83 quattro is very poor. Eventually most of it will be augmented with secondary wiring for things like the fuel pump and radiator fan.
Also on the 1983 many people are upgrading the brakes and suspension to the later 1984 style simply because parts aren't available. These are changes to the originality of the car, but I don't they take away from it in any way. In fact its the large reason why the 84s are so much more desirable than an 83. People who do a 20V engine swap often look for RR parts so that it looks completely stock.
Sport quattros are obviously in another category, but many of these cars have had their blocks swapped out. They are expensive to maintain since many parts are original to the sportQ only.
Any Rally car chasis that ran as a production factory car is worth fantastic money as long as its mechanically sound and running well. A victory or a drive with a notable driver increases its historical value. These cars obviously fetch a premium as the first AWD rally cars. Their appeal goes beyond Audi fans to race and rally fanatics from all makes. Original historical cars are almost too valuable to drive or race. People start making copies. If the copy is good, it will provide all the same appeal and experience to 99% of the people who see it. There was an outstanding copy of a 1937 Auto Union race car at the goodwood a few years ago. It was impeccable in every detail. Unbelievable workmanship to make that car. It ran like the original, but the owners were able to drive it like they stole it because it was a copy. And of course everyone got to see a period race car run.
The other older Audis are still decent collectables, but wont have near the value as the 3 above. They still IMO, are worthy of being kept clean and running and in original condition.
I've made a few posts on this subject before about which Audis sold in the US will still be around in 20 years. I think the newer cars from 1990 onward with the exception of the S cars and the RS6 will eventually loose much of their value and pretty much be recylced. Its the disposable car generation we live in.
Just my opinion,
James
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (Fusilier)

I understand some of your conclusions but respectfully disagree
about the new model Audis. The 96-2002 A4 (B5 platform) is a design classic- as opposed to what people regard as a "classic car", ie, a rare
limited # production car.
Even more influential, in terms of affecting automobile design, is the TT. You might know that it is one of less than 2 dozen automobiles in the permanent collection (they bought a 2001 225QCoupe) of the Museum of Modern Art in NYC.
So this idea of what is "classic" is an interpretive one that takes in subjectivity as well as objective criteria.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (JasBQwik)

I tend to be more of a purist than anyone else around here. Like I cringe wuen I hear of somebody doing asn engine swap of any kind on a Coupe GT Special Build. Or doing any other major mods. If you wan to do an engine swap...pick a more commong car please...
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (JasBQwik)

Jas,
I think those models are too new to pass judgement. But one thing that the cars I mention have all in common is their limited Production number. To become an immediate classic the car must have limited numbers. So the A4 and the TT in my opinion are far from classic just because they are so new and numerous. Now, I don't disagree that they're landmark cars, but I don't know if "classic" is the right word for them. I mean, 80% of the TTs I see on the road are bone stock, same goes for the A4. Are those classics? No

A car like a TT where 10s of thousands upon thousards have been made. Need about 90% of those to be crushed or recycled into buildings to become rare. I know that hurts, but I think thats 100% true. In 50 years when there are only 100 TTs left on the road, I think they could become VERY valuable. Will the TT become a classics? In about 50 years, absolutely. Just like all cars from the 1930s are classics.
For example, take the Chargers. So many were destroyed to make the Dukes of Hazzard, those cars are worth $$$ now. Older cars that were once common only become valuable after most of them have been destroyed. So a Mint condition charger is worth big bucks now.
I was just citing examples of Audis that are considered "classics" and that loosely means their street value to collectors is going up. Thats the most important thing that defines a classic car, appreciation in value. Go find an Audi that is an investment where the value goes up from year to year and then I will call it a classic. So, Rally cars, Sport quattros are definately there already. Urquattros are in the swing and most agree that prices are slowly on the climb for these cars. urS4s are in limbo, but I think their values will start to climb after a few more years of them dropping. Any Audi in the U.S. older than 1970 is a classic. Late 70s Audis will probably see a swing in the next 5 years just because they're rare. I'm pretty sure all other Audis are going down in price pretty steady.
The hard part of cars is when they hit rock bottom in value most of the non-purists will sell them or upgrade to a newer car, which means that car will eventually be sold as scrap metal. (notice how I get back on-topic here). So the definition of an Audi purist to me is someone who sinks 2000 dollars into a car worth 500.
Or people that can't stand to see a rare Audi get crushed. A purist is a person who chooses to drive a 20 year old car instead of a new one not because of money, but because they love the old car.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (Fusilier)

Quote, originally posted by Fusilier »
Jas,
So the definition of an Audi purist to me is someone who sinks 2000 dollars into a car worth 500.
Or people that can't stand to see a rare Audi get crushed. A purist is a person who chooses to drive a 20 year old car instead of a new one not because of money, but because they love the old car.
damn strait http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (MFZERO)

Yeah, these are good points you guys are making, but in age of disposable everything, the idea of an instant classic doesn't seem so far out....so I think I'm agreeing w. restoration and all of that.
But a point I'm trying to explore is a little different-
Let me just set up an example- or rather a comparison...
When most people think of something being art-usually they associate it with what you'd find in a museum...ie, time has gone by, the work has received critical scrutiny, and its been placed into this aesthetic framework of being called (& valued) as something called art.
Lets assume that art is being made today-great art.
Does time need to go by before it becomes art? Does it need to be rare to be art?
No. To both questions.
To many, purity, classicism, is a distinction of rarity-or in the case of automobiles, limited numbers is a signifier attached to defining a classic automobile.
To me, I'd prefer to widen the definition to feel comfortable.
Just as there is no single
monolithic narrative- Bush's narrative, jock narrative, teen narrative- Abu Graib photo narrative- no single point-of-view-, terms such as "classic" and "pure" remain in flux because they are interpretive concepts. "Rare"- if the data is correct is empirical- it's rarity can be proven.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (Fusilier)

Quote, originally posted by Fusilier »
Jas,
So the definition of an Audi purist to me is someone who sinks 2000 dollars into a car worth 500.

So what does that make me? $6,000 into restoring a car with a blue book value of $2,000...
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (duandcc)

Let me guess, Genuine Audi parts or nothing at all?
I'm the same way, Trying to hunt down a rare #7 Audi K27 hotside for my rallycar. I think I have just found one in LIechtenstein.
LOL
James
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (Fusilier)

what about the urq thats omeone put a v8 in..i saw a few people didnt take kindly to that...
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? (Fusilier)

If the UrQ is scrap, I don't have issues with it. That's just me though.
Cutting up a pristine car or a historically significant car though, I think is wrong.
 

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Re: Are there audi purists? ([email protected])

What about straight body, but a rusted through floor?
No wrecks, good body panels.
Would you
1. start taking all the panels and urquattro stuff
2. weld up the holes in the floorpan
3. get a 4000k floorpan and weld on the urquattro unibody
 

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id say option 2 first, but if its too bad for option 2, then option 3...
basically its keep it as close as possible and pursue other options when necessary.
eric
 
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