[Obin Robinson]

the green arros point to the first welds we had to do then we just placed welds inbetween those spots. the left side of the photo is the back of the car. the right side is towards the front. you're looking under the car from the passenger side looking at the inside of the driver's side rear wheel.
the angle irion was welded into that spot that "boxes in" the rear sway bar. it cost $25 (parts and labor) to do and it helped make the car MUCH more neutral to drive. the car handles like it's on rails now and i can corner extremely flat without any squealing tires MUCH faster than before. also in the winter i can go tail-out around any corners using liftoff oversteer. the car now feels almost like it's rear wheel drive with this little tweak.
i can upload higher res pictures or other angles if people wish. any questions? i'll be more than happy to help

obin

Modified by Obin Robinson at 11:54 AM 1-15-2004

 

[vwR1337]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Obin Robinson)

id like to see more pics, hard to figure out how its works with just thta pic

 

[Obin Robinson]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (vwR1337)

want me to take pics from the other side? the result of welding the ear of the car is that when you go sharply into a corner, the car doesn't want to lift the rear wheels and squeal around the corner. you can turn sharply and the body of your car won't roll around like a barrel in a stream. this mod does WAY more than any rear strut brace ever will do for you.
it simply makes the car much better to drive! and if you really don't like the results then you can just take the bar out with a drill and a few cutting bits

obin

 

[Mooz!]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Obin Robinson)

Quote, originally posted by Obin Robinson »

want me to take pics from the other side? the result of welding the ear of the car is that when you go sharply into a corner, the car doesn't want to lift the rear wheels and squeal around the corner. you can turn sharply and the body of your car won't roll around like a barrel in a stream. this mod does WAY more than any rear strut brace ever will do for you. it simply makes the car much better to drive! and if you really don't like the results then you can just take the bar out with a drill and a few cutting bits obin

Yes, far better than any rear strut brace, but what about rear sway bar?
How would a larger rear sway bar and this welding add/take away from the handling?

 

[Obin Robinson]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Mooz!)

Quote, originally posted by Mooz! »

Yes, far better than any rear strut brace, but what about rear sway bar? How would a larger rear sway bar and this welding add/take away from the handling?

it's effectively thicker than a THICK rear sway bar. no it's not as adjustable or precise as a $300 sway bar, but the results are about the same. the welded in piece basically makes it so that entire assembly can BARELY flex. if you just have a sway bar in there it will still flex. this is almost like you have a solid rear end. also, i drive offroad, lift my wheels in corners, and drive this VW like it was a go-kart. this welded part is as stiff and solid as day 1 (i did it october of last year).
obin

 

[Mooz!]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Obin Robinson)

Sounds like a worthwhile mod...
You might have to tellfranz about this one, if he hasn't already made his own entire independant rear suspension or something...

 

[PerfectGLi]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Obin Robinson)

How thick is the plate you used?

 

[Obin Robinson]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Mooz!)

Quote, originally posted by Mooz! »

Sounds like a worthwhile mod... You might have to tellfranz about this one, if he hasn't already made his own entire independant rear suspension or something...

it is a worthwhile mod! it was cheap (under $30). if you don't like it then it can be removed with only a bit of cutting. i don't know why you would want to remove it though because the results are spectacular. the car feels almost like it's rear wheel drive, especially when you're driving in the wet. i can kick the tail out and control the rear end of the car easily if i want to. the car doesn't feel like it's fleing like a wobbly mattress. the whole car feels TIGHT!
obin

 

[Obin Robinson]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (PerfectGLi)

Quote, originally posted by PerfectGLi »

How thick is the plate you used?

ok, i just ran outside and measured it and it's 3/8" thick (a little over 9mm).
hope that helps

obin

 

[PerfectGLi]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Obin Robinson)

Thanks

 

[blown_sixdub]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Obin Robinson)

Glad to see its working well for you, Obin.
We just did another rear beam last week. This time we used a 2.5" OD, .25" wall thickness round tube. We cut it in half and welded the resulting "C" inside the beam. Works well, too.
For people that are thinking of welding their rear beams---all you are doing is increasing the rear roll stiffness (which is what a sway bar does). When you increase roll stiffness, you effectively decrease traction on that end of the vehicle. This allows the car to rotate easily and makes for a more neutral setup. A couple of things to note: welding is cheaper, lighter, and more effective than a hollow 28mm rear bar.

 

[kickice24]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Obin Robinson)

Could you do this mod w/o any rear sway and get good results? I'm on a budget, but have access to steel and a welder.

 

[Obin Robinson]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (kickice24)

Quote, originally posted by kickice24 »

Could you do this mod w/o any rear sway and get good results? I'm on a budget, but have access to steel and a welder.

you should be able to. it WILL improve something, but maybe not as much as if you ALSO had a sway bar.
obin

 

[ewongkaizen]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (Obin Robinson)

IMHO the "welded" rear beam is a similar mod to the SRS rear "sway bar".
In fact I tend to agree with the SRS position that a rear "sway bar" will "bind" due to the way a twist beam rear axle works.
So IMHO - dont bother with a "sway bar" - just weld the rear beam. Bolting one in is "ok", but doesnt add as much stiffness per se due to shifting of the bolts in the holes. A rivited rear beam (instead of bolts) might be tighter - but welding the angle iron or half pipe in there is probably far easier to do.
Actually my GOld nver had a front bar and with Bilstien HDs and SRS aprings I see no need for one either.. but hten I dont do track work either..

 

[91jettavr6]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (ewongkaizen)

it sounds like a good idea.. but someone was mentioning about the loosing the traction? We would all like to see some more pics and some better arrows.. I want to know more here, for a ghetto mod before i put it on my car

 

[ewongkaizen]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (91jettavr6)

As I recall there are good pics in Per Schroder's (sp) VW book - look for it in Barnes and Noble or Borders - its usually on the shelf - tho well thumbed

It may LOOK like a ghetto mod - but its acutally a FACTORY mod. I think that the GTi cars had an extra piece of metal in the beam to do just that....
as far as losing traction... huh? - unless you have a really cool mod - a Golf is a front driver... Yeah - lifting a tire in theory does reduce the cornering capability (less rubber on the road) - but its not the same issue as if this were a rear drive car (where lifting a tire w/o a locking rear diff DOES mean a traction loss)

 

[vr6Cop]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (ewongkaizen)

Quote, originally posted by ewongkaizen »

IMHO the "welded" rear beam is a similar mod to the SRS rear "sway bar"...

Very similar.

 

[jamaicula]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (vr6Cop)

I have an H&H bar welded and bolted in there. Talk about understeer.

 

[ewongkaizen]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (jamaicula)

I thought the FRONT bar added understeer... and a rear bar tended to increase OVERSTEER....

 

[blown_sixdub]

Re: as requested: pics of welded rear suspension (ewongkaizen)

Quote, originally posted by ewongkaizen »

I thought the FRONT bar added understeer... and a rear bar tended to increase OVERSTEER....

Yes, your thinking is correct.
A swaybar/antiroll bar added to one end of a car will decrease traction at that end.