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Discussion Starter #1
Just wanted to give a bit of info on changing the ATF on a 09A 5 speed tiptronic transmission. The 09A is different from the 01M, in that there is no longer any separation of the final drive and the transmission. All parts now share the same fluid, you no long have to buy gear oil for the final drive. The following is not a step by step, but just some information to go along with the Bentley procedure.
If you are looking for the filler plug, here are some shots. The drain plug is the big one on the bottom. I think it’s a 15/16, I didn’t have a metric that size. I would guess 24mm? Too lazy to convert.


Unlike the 01M 4 speed automatic, it seems that it is not easily possible to change the oil screen (filter). The Bentley manual does not give any mention to the filter whatsover. The design of the 09A places the valve bodies at the front of the transmission, rather than underneath like the 01M. The 01M filter is easily accessible from the underside of the transmission, by removing the pan. The 09A, however, does not have the filter with the valve bodies, and I am actually not sure of the exact location. Judging from the parts display screen at a VW dealer, the filter is roughly behind the torque converter inside the casing. I had already purchased the filter, and then realized that changing it was hopeless unless I removed the trans. Now I could be wrong about all of this, but this is my take on it. Below are some pics of the filter, in case people are curious. It is apparently a fine metal mesh that is used to filter.


Ok, on to the fluid change. According to the Bentley manual, there is a procedure, which calls for draining the fluid, dumping in approx 2.5l, and then checking the fluid level at a specified temperature (By the way measuring block 002 is used for the 09A trans temperature). BE SURE TO GET THE RIGHT FLUID. Most part shops will try to give you the fluid for the 01M trans, so be sure to get G052990A2 for the tiptronic trans. It looks like traditional trans fluid (cherry cough syrup) in color. Oh and a funnel like something below will do the trick.


Having performed the procedure as close to the manual as possible, I can tell you that THIS DID NOT WORK FOR ME. I managed to drain the fluid without jacking up the car, which was nice. I used a 7.5 Qt pan, and the drained fluid filled up a good amount of the pan. I unfortunately did not measure exactly, but it appears that roughly 3.5l was drained from the trans. So, when going to fill up the transmission, I decided to pour in 3l. Did that, got the trans up to temp, and pulled the check plug. Quite a bit of fluid drained out, I would guess somewhere around .5l (surprise). So anyway I sealed the trans up and took her for a drive. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU DO NOT DO THIS. The trans shifted ok, but it sounded like the differential did not have quite enough oil. Here's a poor shot of the old oil below. It looked kinda like chocolate syrup. The drainplug (magnetic) actually did not have a whole lot of metal on it. Changing at 30k, some of them chipped, with a few 1hr drives at 100+ did not seem to screw up the fluid that bad. It looks like 40k would have been ok for me, but I don’t have any actual oil analysis to back that up, so my comments really don’t mean sh*t.

I drove about .5 mile like this. Hopefully nothing broke. So, I quickly went back and dumped in another liter. This seemed to do the trick, getting rid of all the horrible noises and such. I added a little more after this, just to top it off, after all, more is better than less. What could it hurt, eh?

oh ok nevermind. Anyway, it looks like roughly 3.5l - 4l should be used. I cannot be certain, so I would recommend simply measuring how much fluid comes out and replace that (very technical). Well of course only do this if your trans has not been leaking fluid profusely. So, for those who are going to do this, I would recommend replacing the red sealing cap, because it would likely break when you try to remove it. If you are slick, then go ahead and save it. But most likely it will be a little delicate from the heat. So, I would say, get the cap for sure and also the drain plug washer. The black plug should be ok, and simply pull off. It might be a little stuck. If you really want to do the fluid procedure, you should get the check plug with washer too (I don’t see the point of this). The part numbers are listed below.
G052990A2 Tiptronic Trans Fluid
N90414201 Trans fluid level check plug
09A325429 Trans Filter (good luck changing it)
001409069D Drain plug washer
01M321435B Red trans filler cap
01M321432A Back trans filler plug

So, to recap, I used about 3.5-4l of fluid (actually I personally used about 4.2l). If anyone decides to change the fluid, post how much exactly you get out, I am curious. According to a technical paper on http://erwin.volkswagen.de, the fluid change is approx 5l, and the trans fits about 2.5l using the fluid check access, and I actually drained out about 3.5l . So.. there are some conflicting numbers there. Below is a pic from the screen of the technical paper. The actual document is sealed media, which won't let you copy or even do a screenshot of.

Finally, I would recommend going to Auburn VW http://www.1stvwparts.com/ for buying the parts. They sell at 20% over cost, which is cheaper than IMPEX (http://www.vwparts.com). Not all parts can be looked up on the 1stvwparts site, but if you put the parts numbers you need in the comments section, they will help you out. You can always call them too. For example, list price on the trans fluid is somewhere around $30, IMPEX is $25, and 1stvwparts is 20.74.

Oh and btw, don’t forget to use the VAG tool to initiate basic settings with the transmission and throttle for smooth shifting. It really does make a big difference, especially if you have cleared any codes or made any changes.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=847221
If you’re bored, go to my friends site, btw. He is an attention wh*re and loves new hits. He is also hosting my pics for me.
http://www.reverendsgarage.net
fin
edit:corrected trans info at top


Modified by sjoback at 7:02 AM 1-24-2004
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

Hmmmm... You poured in 3L. Ran the engine to the required temp (using Vag-com). Did you circulate the fluid first by shifting the tranny into each gear for about 5 seconds each before pulling the check plug? Skipping this step, the fluid level is not accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (Cadenza_7o)

yep, ran the motor, shifted around. went through all of the gears, did it twice actually, to make sure the fluid circulated. very strange.
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

Strange that your tranny was low on fluid when you followed the instruction.
When mine was done, 2.6L was drained. This included the residual fluid in the pan and old filter. Bentley instructions said to use 3L for drain & refill WITHOUT mentioning anything about dropping the pan & filter. I ended up using 3.1L or 0.5L more that was drained. This is for a tranny that hasn't been serviced for 50,000 miles. The tranny has worked fine about 1000 miles now, which includes a 600-mile trip. I should check the level again.
BTW, did you drop & clean the oil pan? You said there wasn't much metal shavings attached to the drain plug. I didn't have much on it either till I saw the pan.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (Cadenza_7o)

yours sounds more normal, but then again, you have the 4speed auto right?
the tiptronic 5 speed auto does not have a pan like the 4 speed. The "pan" is facing the front of the car, standing upright. notice where the fill port is. The pan can be removed, but it is not the same, where junk is settling with the 4 speed. and there is no filter there
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

Thanks for the clarification. I can see how it's different and more difficult to drop the pan compared to my 4-speed auto.
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

Just curious... Doesn't VW say that the Tip is a "sealed" system and the tranny fluid is lifetime? I thought I read/heard this. Although that is prob based on a grandma driving it and no mods.
I'd like to do this as well at around 35-40K but I don't think I'll be brave and do it myself based on the questionable amounts. Will a VW dealer even do this upon request?
If it is indeed considered "lifetime" or "non-serviceable" and you change the fluid yourself couldn't they consider it warranty voiding?

Edit Just read the other thread (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1064342) but some of my questions above still apply



Modified by Jetta_1.8Tip at 12:37 PM 11-4-2003
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (Jetta_1.8Tip)

yeah, its considered sealed, although with the Eurovan you are supposed to change the fluid.
if you want to be safe with the "amounts" just put back what you take out. can't be any safer than that.
If you take it to a dealer they will charge you a bunch o money I'm sure, and most likely won't do it.
and yes, the warranty is something to consider when doing this. If you want to make sure they never know, be sure to reuse the black plug on the fill hole of the trans. It is dabbed with white paint. I made the mistake of replacing mine. oops.
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

Technically speaking, no transmission is really "sealed".
Most have a vent to allow pressure escape as the tranny heats up and the fluid expands. Otherwise, the pressure would blow the seals and damage the electronics. And of course, there has to be a way to "drain and fill" the ATF.
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

Quote, originally posted by sjoback »
If you want to make sure they never know, be sure to reuse the black plug on the fill hole of the trans. It is dabbed with white paint. I made the mistake of replacing mine. oops.

good ol' white out should do the trick
, they'll never know
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (DaFabolous2.0)

Quote, originally posted by DaFabolous2.0 »

good ol' white out should do the trick
, they'll never know

yeah, thats what I figured
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

Hey look at that picture with the torque rating, 258lbs of torque so Is this the final rating of the 5 speed tiptronic so that all rumours can be laid to rest?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (Onearmedmidget)

I suppose you could say that. The screen shot is from the vw self study program 232. I think this number has been floated around before.
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

Thanks for the posting, very informative. I've always changed tranny fluid after a few years of ownership, 30K-40K miles, sounds right to me also. Two of my previous automatics had over 300,000 kms (200,000+mi) and trouble free.
But the difficult access to the filter, and no pan to precipitate filings makes me wonder if more frequent changes are a wiser choice, and ignore the filter as long as possible.
edit: for poor English, gee you would think after 40 years, ah, never-mind it's fixed.


Modified by okanagan45 at 8:31 PM 12-20-2003
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (okanagan45)

Quote, originally posted by okanagan45 »
Thanks for the posting, very informative. I've always changed tranny fluid after a few years of ownership, 30K-40K miles, sounds right to me also. Two of my previous automatics had over 300,000 kms (200,000+mi) and trouble free.
But the difficult access to the filter, and no pan to precipitate filings makes me wonder if more changes are a wise choice, and ignore the filter as long as possible.

yeah that's what I'm going with. more changes, and not worry about the filter. It's metal mesh, so I wouldn't worry about it too much, and as I mentioned, not going to be changed unless you drop the trans. I am going to change my fluid again at 40k, so that I have a good fluid flush. I'll wait another 30k after that.
the drainplug is magnetic, though I would feel better being able to clean a pan out like the 4spd auto folk.
edit: I noticed that above I mentioned I changed my fluid at 30k, actually the intial change was at 35k, for those who care.


Modified by sjoback at 9:32 PM 12-20-2003
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

I just priced a new electric pump (250 gph) for $35. Couldn't we just disconnect the transmission lines and use quick connect fittings to extend the tubing and flush it out with the pump? I mentioned this on another thread but this thread is more specific to my transmission, and it needed a lift to the top.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (okanagan45)

well, I just answered your post in the other thread

but yeah, basically, there are no trans lines we can use to flush out the fluid. The trans cooler bolts to the trans, with no actual "lines" for us to access. The only "lines" running in and out of the trans cooler are for the coolant. Our car doesn't have an external trans cooler (with lines we can tap into) like some others.
Maybe we could take the trans cooler off, and hook up a hose to that connection? But I don't know how much good that would do. Plus the hassle.
Like I said in the other thread, try just changing your fluid twice, should be good enough. I am going to change my fluid again at 40k (5k after my first change of 4L).
 

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Re: ATF Change Information for Tiptronic 09A 5 speed auto 02+ (sjoback)

Okay, thanks man,
I guess it's the partial drain and repeat method as I've done with previous cars. It works well no doubt because I never had transmission troubles ever in my 25 years of driving automatics.
 
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