[Beetleguru]

OK, so I posted that I thought my transfer pump went bad. Here's what happened.
Pulled into Walmart and was idling and the car turned off. Restarting it took a few extra spins but she fired up. I drove around the lot and parked her. After a store run I came out, started her up (took a couple more spins than usual) and started to pull away. Just then she sputtered and died. I couldn't restart her. I was low on gas. Probably about 1-2 gallons left in the tank. My gauge reads off slightly so I knew I wasn't out. Anyway, I put in a couple of gallons and tried to start her. After a while she did crank and was idling but as soon as I pressed the throttle she died. Wouldn't start back up after that.
Towed her home last night. Went out to do some test this morning and here's what happened.
I took the rear access panel off to see the transfer pump assembly in the tank. I had a friend start the car and I listened. Couldn't tell if both pumps were going or just the main. It sounded like both were working even after unplugging the transfer. Next up was to remove the relay and jump it to try and hear. I had to have my friend listen and he couldn't tell if only one or both were running. After doing this for a few times I put the relay back in and cranked the car. She fired up after a few spins and ran PERFECTLY! It's like nothing was wrong. OK, so I named my car Mystery originally. That name is back. Any ideas? Have you had a sporadic transfer pump before? Should I just buy the relay and the transfer pump and swap them out?
One other thing, do you guys order a NEW o-ring when you do the job? Bentley says change it!
Any ideas?

And because no thread is worth looking at without pictures, here's a sneak peek of my new JUNGLE FOX photo shoot!

 

[tbt10f]

Re: ATTN FOX gurus: Need your help with fuel pump/relay issue (Beetleguru)

I went to the local hardware store with the whole assembly and found an o- ring that fit it when I did mine. Cost me about $.50, and I'm sure it works better than the silicone caulking the PO used.

 

[Beetleguru]

I figured there would be about 20 responses by now. Where are the Fox gurus?!?! Working, I bet. LOL. Anyway, I bought the relay and the pump. Had to order the o-ring from the dealer.

 

[Banned wagon]

Re: (Beetleguru)

Well I guess all the real fox gurus are trick-er-treating or something. so here is my second rate hack of a mechanic advice.
I have never replace the o-ring. If it is dry i just use some petroleum jelly on it. did you check your screen on the pick up while it was out
? also how new is your fuel filter
and a nother pic for fun

my pumpkin igloo

 

[WyMCoupe]

Re: (Banned wagon)

If all else fails, check for shorts. I had a similar issue with my 325e (not a Fox same but the fuel delivery system is very similar) and disconnecting and capping all the wires on the same fuse as the fuel pumps fixed it. Surprisingly, it never blew the fuse with the correct amperage one in there. It was just kinda iffy if it would start or not. This is a last ditch effort as quite a few things are on the same fuse on a Fox and Its never fun to string new wires.
The easiest place to check for a short on a '90 is if your O2 sensor wires got a little bit too close to the exhaust as the O2 sensor heater is on the same fuse. It may not look like they are shorting but if they are a little bit cooked (brown, cracking, overly stiff) they can short though there and cause problems.

 

[Beetleguru]

I haven't taken out the pump yet. I ordered a new o-ring from the dealer. I'm just going to try the relay and see how that works. I'd like to avoid replacing the pump if possible...at least right now.

 

[Banned wagon]

Re: (Beetleguru)

just take the thing out its only like 35$-55$

 

[Beetleguru]

I put in the relay this morning and it wouldn't start. Must be the transfer pump. I finally got in the o-ring from the dealer so I can pull this out tomorrow. OK, so who has a fool proof idea about removing the sending unit? I don't have the special VW tool. What do you guys use? I can just use a punch or something similar and hammer it off but I'm sure that will damage it.
I think the only other one I did was on my old Scirocco and I used a hammer and screw driver. But I didn't care about that car like I do my Fox. Any better ideas?
Let me know.
Peace
Dave

 

[snowfox]

Re: (Beetleguru)

BFP / BFCL (That is, "Big Friggin' Pliers" or "Big Friggin' Channel Locks")
I don't have any big enough, so I've always used the punch and hammer trick - minimal damage. Never replaced the O-ring or had a leak eaither.
[edit]
You know, before you replace the pump, you can disconnect the fuel lines at the top plate and have someone key the car to see if the pump is running/working. (Obviously taking the required precautions to deliver any fuel that pumps out into a suitable container, etc, etc....) Your Bentley will have the spec for how much fuel it should pump in a given time period.
[/edit]


Modified by snowfox at 2:58 PM 11-2-2007

 

[Beetleguru]

You know what, I'm not even going to test the volume of the original pump. It's about 19 years old. I'm just replacing it. LOL.
I'll let you guys know if Mystery is back in the relm of running tomorrow.
By the way, we are getting our first cool weather for the fall tonight! Right now we are in the 60s and should be in the 50s in the morning! Yeeee haw! I'm over the 90 degree days. Tomorrow's highs should be high 70's or low 80's.

 

[twarch]

Re: (Beetleguru)

Go easy when you pull the pump out of the tank. The screen on the bottom is just pressed on. When I pulled mine out, the screen fell into the tank. Took me half-an-hour with a coat hanger to fish it out again

 

[Beetleguru]

It was a pain in the $%#& to get that unit out of the tank. When I got it out (carefully) it looked like it had been in the desert for years. It was a dusty color. Strange. The hose that holds the pump to the assembly was disentigrating. And of course, I didn't even think of that hose so I had to go buy a piece. I put everything back together and tried to start the car. No luck. So, I pulled the relay and jumped it to run the pump for a few seconds. Plugged the relay back in and tried to start it. No such luck. I cranked and cranked and now the battery is dead.

No time to jump it tonight so I'll have to work on it again tomorrow.
My question is, should it just fire right up or is there some priming involved?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I'll post pics of the sending unit later.
Dave


Modified by Beetleguru at 6:08 PM 11-3-2007

 

[DreadPirateRobert]

When I replaced fuel lines, mine started, died, cranked a while, then started for real.
Are you sure all the wiring's good?
Have you checked to make sure you're getting fuel to the engine?

 

[Beetleguru]

Re: (manboy)

Couldn't sleep so I'm up at the computer. One thing at a time. I'll have to jump start it first. Guess I'll try cranking it over for a while. If that doesn't do the trick I might have to pull the new pump to make sure it works. Dumb me never even thought about checking it first before installation.
It's always something!

 

[Beetleguru]

Re: ATTN FOX gurus: Need your help with fuel pump/relay issue (Beetleguru)

Anybody BUMP...

 

[Beetleguru]

freshness bump

 

[Edcon91 II]

Re: (Beetleguru)

If you just want to see if it works, pull the line off underneath the car before it goes into the main pump. Direct the flow into a coffee can or something and crank the car for a few seconds. There is no point pulling the pump out again. If it is pumping fuel, I would pull a line up front as someone else stated, to see if fuel is going to the engine.
Also, I don't know how long you tried cranking the car before the battery died, but I remember when I did my transfer pump, it took quite a while to start it back up. I was convinced the pump wasn't my problem, but I continued to crank anyway. All of a sudden it just fired up.

 

[Longitudinal]

Re: (Beetleguru)

When it is cranking and not starting, you should poke a probulator into the power wire of the transfer pump and put the other end to ground to see if you're getting current to the transfer pump, or you could disconnect the use the connector, but I like to see the current reading at the same time I should expect the pump to run.
DO the same thing with the pressure pump. A Quantum wagon I just had and sold (the one OSCR attendees saw while at the shop) had an intermittent power failure to the pump that I eventually traced to the ignition switch of all things.

 

[Beetleguru]

OK gang, here's the scoop. the fox is still dead. I tried cranking it again, smelled the strong fuel odor and did some sniffing around. Found out the odor is coming from the exhaust. Next, I pulled the plugs. All smelled of gas. Obviously, the car is getting fuel. to be sure, I pulled the 5th injector and tested it. It sprayed very nicely.
I replaced all the plugs, the cap and rotor and tried to start it. No change. Still cranks up for a second or two then dies.
So, what is my next move? Is is possible only the 5th injector is working? How long does this run when starting the car?
Guys, my car has been down for nearly two weeks. Your ideas would be much appreciated.
Dave
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3508233

 

[Beetleguru]