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Bingo.

My 325i was $34,600 in late 2003. That's the same as $48,000 today, but the new 3 series starts at $40,000.

Vehicles are getting cheaper. People are just getting dumber.
Well, starting price of a 2wd 325i in 2003 was ~$28k, which works out just under $40k today. I've given up on my 'more expensive' argument but I'd have a tough time saying things are cheaper now, unless you want to talk price per horsepower or per feature or something like that.

There's definitely more people struggling to make car payments and longer term loans these days (and that's why a bit ago I believed cars were more expensive), but the more I think about it, the more I believe it's due to a combination of people moving upmarket and wages stagnating. In 2003, I remember the "median" person being content with a FWD, cloth-seat 4-speed Malibu...that doesn't seem to fly today.
 

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Bingo.

My 325i was $34,600 in late 2003. That's the same as $48,000 today, but the new 3 series starts at $40,000.

Vehicles are getting cheaper. People are just getting dumber.
I get it, if you just look at inflation you can claim cars are cheaper now. If you look at people's ability to afford cars (wage growth), that would be what drives the notion that cars are more expensive. If inflation outpaces wage growth, that just means everything is more expensive (relatively speaking) now, which doesn't mean cars miraculously got cheaper. Cars today are probably a better value, since they come with a lot more features than cars in the past.
 

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If inflation outpaces wage growth, that just means everything is more expensive (relatively speaking) now, which doesn't mean cars miraculously got cheaper. There's no doubt cars today are probably a better value, since they come with a lot more features than cars in the past.
But it does also mean that some cars got cheaper.

There are cars that were ~20k 15 years ago that are still ~20k today which means they are actually cheaper.

some car prices went up with inflation, some outpaced inflation, others are well below what inflation is.



This is a car for people with household incomes of 200k+ a year (Chicagos finest salesman can probably find the actual number in Audis marketing data, but not saying he has to share), if the price rose with inflation like it seems to have then the price is just fine. The target market is fine with the price.
 

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2021 RS6 Avant, 2019 Audi eTron, 2010 A6 Avant, 2002 Chevy 2500, 1988 16v Scircco
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This is a car for people with household incomes of 200k+ a year. The target market is fine with the price.
This.

Or are now retired and used to make that and own two properties and have a retirement income of 100k a year.
 

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This.

Or are now retired and used to make that and own two properties and have a retirement income of 100k a year.
Looks like I need to retire and start buying some property!
 

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On what planet is mid-60s for a midsize luxury car considered expensive? The A6/5er/E class have been playing in this territory for ages. Hell, I done seen non-M 5ers optioned over $100k what must be almost 10 years ago now.

Expecting it to be cheaper than a tarted up cute ute = :screwy:
 

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On what planet is mid-60s for a midsize luxury car considered expensive? The A6/5er/E class have been playing in this territory for ages. Hell, I done seen non-M 5ers optioned over $100k what must be almost 10 years ago now.

Expecting it to be cheaper than a tarted up cute ute = :screwy:
Eggfookingzackly
 

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Discussion Starter #88
Why is no one talking about the mercedes e400 wagon? This seems like the closest competition and the e400 costs a little more than the A6 allroad. Who cares about the Q8 in relation to any wagon? I wonder what a similarly equipped V90 XC would cost as well---the base price is certainly a lot more palatable.
The VC90/XC is def cheaper, but having owned a loaded S90 T6, I can tell you the car really isn't Benz/Audi territory. Everything is just slightly less than (ambient lighting, single camera driver assist, cockpit, T6). The biggest difference imo being the strange twin charged 4cyl which although it makes 316HP, just isn't refined or fluid like the 3.0t engines in the Benz/Audi. A loaded Volvo wagon is going to be around the middle of the other options' price ranges- and rightfully so.


Fair enough.

Worth mentioning there is far more value in that $40,000 of today's car versus the base car from 15 years ago.
Yeah didn't mean to call you out, because technically you're right- value proposition wise, the new car has more in it- but relativity wise, I think this has to be taken into account with inflation- that as the times change, and certain new features are expected in cars to remain relevant in the market, inflation naturally occurs.


TY
 

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Yeah didn't mean to call you out, because technically you're right- value proposition wise, the new car has more in it- but relativity wise, I think this has to be taken into account with inflation- that as the times change, and certain new features are expected in cars to remain relevant in the market, inflation naturally occurs.
Something my cousin told me when I pointed out how, vs, older models, today's Ski-Doos have better performing carbides that use less material:

Yep, they do more with less and charge the same.
That resonated with me, I think it's a pretty good win-win for profits and value, but it obviously requires better technology to get there. Hopefully as a society we don't stop innovating. :thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #90
Something my cousin told me when I pointed out how, vs, older models, today's Ski-Doos have better performing carbides that use less material:

That resonated with me, I think it's a pretty good win-win for profits and value, but it obviously requires better technology to get there. Hopefully as a society we don't stop innovating. :thumbup:
In order to do more with less, you need to subsidize R&D costs which come over time. It is not a 1:1 that brands are saving because they can do more with less and charge the same, but rather they figured out how to do it by passing the R&D costs on to the consumer via natural inflation over time.

BMW's carplay annual fee comes to mind, as they were the first to offer wireless carplay far before others had it. In that instance, they were ahead of the inflation curve, so they charged R&D costs as an annual fee, and we all know how that went.
 

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Something my cousin told me when I pointed out how, vs, older models, today's Ski-Doos have better performing carbides that use less material:



That resonated with me, I think it's a pretty good win-win for profits and value, but it obviously requires better technology to get there. Hopefully as a society we don't stop innovating. :thumbup:
As with most things, technology becomes cheaper with time. The technology to produce more cars, to produce them more efficiently, and the technology that goes inside the vehicles is all getting very affordable. Which is why something like a Jetta has been around $17k since the MkIV. Obviously the MkIV was a more expensive vehicle when you consider inflation, but that doesn't mean the quality of the new car is less.
 

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In order to do more with less, you need to subsidize R&D costs which come over time. It is not a 1:1 that brands are saving because they can do more with less and charge the same, but rather they figured out how to do it by passing the R&D costs on to the consumer via natural inflation over time.
Oh certainly, and that ties in with needing more technology which has to come from somewhere. And even beyond corporate R&D, lots of research institutions are laying groundwork, and those researchers are enabled by scientists and physicists before them. I mean, companies could save a lot in the short run by not doing more with less and instead selling the same thing over and over again (cough, Nissan, cough) but in doing so they risk becoming non-competitive.
 

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No. The person that wants the allroad has nearly zero interest in a Q8. They are not bringing the allroad over in droves like they are with the SUVs. There is definitely a market for this car, and it will sell well for its production numbers.

Also, pricing lines up exactly where it should. Has anyone looked at a comparably equipped A4 to A4 allroad? It follows just about the same amount of increase between the two.
Could not have said this better.

On what planet is mid-60s for a midsize luxury car considered expensive? The A6/5er/E class have been playing in this territory for ages. Hell, I done seen non-M 5ers optioned over $100k what must be almost 10 years ago now.

Expecting it to be cheaper than a tarted up cute ute = :screwy:
Hey, someone gets it. :thumbup:

I'm not in the market for this car, at the moment, , but if I were the price wouldn't phase me in the least.
 

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Why is no one talking about the mercedes e400 wagon? This seems like the closest competition and the e400 costs a little more than the A6 allroad. Who cares about the Q8 in relation to any wagon? I wonder what a similarly equipped V90 XC would cost as well---the base price is certainly a lot more palatable.
I guess no one reads the first page :confused:

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...-of-a-Q8&p=113955067&viewfull=1#post113955067

The only correct conclusion people should draw about the A6 allroad is that it is priced very reasonably with hardly a significant markup over the A6 sedan. A lot less than I expected Audi to charge to be honest.
 

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The only correct conclusion people should draw about the A6 allroad is that it is priced very reasonably with hardly a significant markup over the A6 sedan. A lot less than I expected Audi to charge to be honest.
Just wait for RS pricing and imagine what is going to happen :laugh:
 

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Didn't realize this would have 4 wheel steering as an option. Nice to see,as it make things like parking a lot easier for a car this size.
 

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True. I didn't phrase that well. Just meant that for larger cars like this, it really helps. Not a need, but a very nice to have with seemingly ever smaller aisles and such in parking lots.
Especially in densely populated areas. We spent the weekend in Toronto and at one point in a garage, even though I was squarely parked I had to get out of the Cayenne through the passenger door. :laugh:
 
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