[rcprato]

Bad Engine Mounts?? Please look at Pic down the chain

I have a 08 2.0T sedan with 97K that I have been chasing a "shuttering" feeling in the front end when I go over harsh bumps like railroad tracks and frost heaves that we get on roads here in NE.
At this point the front suspension has had a lot of improvements done and problem still exits.
Front suspension work over last 6 months:
- New LCA Bushings (solid rubber style rear and Whiteline front)
- Koni FSD Shocks
- VW DG Sport Springs
- 034 Density upper strut mounts
- Meyle HD Sway Bar Link
- ECS Sub Frame Bolt Kit
After all this there is actually an increase in this shuttering feeling most likely due to a firmer suspension now with new springs.
The car drive fantastic, the feeling that there is something loose up front and the shuttering feeling when hitting harsh bumps is diving me crazy.
In addition, I drove a local VwVortexer's 06 Passat that is riding low on coilovers and it did not have this same shuttering from the front so pretty sure what is going on in my car is not normal.
Completely went through front suspension last night and tripled checked that everything is tight and secure!
Also, have upgraded sub frame bolts with ECS kit and checked all the bolts to make sure they are tight and all is good.

Since after all this work and substantial $$$ investment the problem is still there, should I be looking at motor mounts ?

The engine/tranny is no where near secure sitting in the existing mounts, have noticed two things that have been this way for quite awhile.

If parking brake is not on when tightening or breaking loose lug nuts car has a lot of rock back and forth and you can see engine moving a lot if hood open.

Last night I put a large screw driver between right side mount where piece from engine goes into frame mount and I can move engine side to side with minimal effort about 1 1/2" or more.

One more thing, when coming to a slow stop at the last downshift just before you stop I get a light clunk from left side somewhere and if you slow down from 50 mph or so to 25 to 30 mph and then put gas back on you get a left side clunk too but not always.

Does it sound like bad mounts?

I can take video and post later if that would help?

 

[nater]

I'm not so sure I understand what you mean by "shuttering" but "clunking" makes more sense to me.
Check for excessive movement of engine with a buddy.
Identify the mounts and while watching them have your buddy power brake in drive and reverse.
You can tell if a mount is torn or broken that way. You may need a lift.

The clunking can also come from sway bar links or bushings as well.

 

[gigel]

Like nater said, clunking is probably a better word...
I don't think the noise comes from the motor mounts, the engine doesn't "jump" when you go over speed bumps. Since you replaced all on the control arm and strut dept., I would suspect steering rack/tie rods. Of course, you probably need to have someone look at the car, don't just replace an expensive part like that.

 

[gorgom1025]

Could be the steering rack

Does your car make the same "shutter" noise/feeling under hard acceleration/braking/cornering? I had a similar issue, and thought it could be the motor mounts too since under acceleration the engine will move because of all the torque.

At first the dealer thought it was the suspension, so they replaced my sway bar end links and control arms, but that didn't fix the issue. So I brought it back and they narrowed it down to the steering rack. I had it replaced and the issue went away.

Try this: turn your wheel all the way to one side, and then shimmy it back and forth. If you hear a hollow noise, it could be time for a new rack. Luckily I bought an extended warranty so it only cost me ~$400, but the warranty covered almost $2k... So you might want to try the cheaper route and look at the engine mounts first.

 

[rcprato]

BINGO !

Turn wheel all the way to hard stop, back off 1/4 turn then turn back and forth and I can duplicate the noise.

If I need a new steering rack that is not going to make me happy.......

At least I can duplicate noise and take into VW Dealership for further diagnosis.

I will post back when I know more.

 

[Tutti57]

I was also thinking that the rack could be a possibility. I replaced mine for about $140 with a used one from eBay.

There are some bushings that I wish I replaced while I had it off and you'll also need an alignment after if you go that route.

 

[rcprato]

Tutti57, did you do this in the driveway on jack stands or do you need a lift?

How hard of a job was it?

 

[Tutti57]

I did it in the driveway. Not very difficult. Just took time. I wouldn't say it was any worse than lowering the car.

 

[rcprato]

It's not the Mounts or the Steering Rack per VW

Dropped the Passat off at my local VW dealer today and paid for a diagnosis before deciding to replace the steering rack, I could duplicate the noise for the VW head mechanic so he knew what he was looking for and could easily feel the looseness when driving around their lot.
After checking everything out on the lift and double checking my work he thinks there is a lack of damping on the LF shock/strut and that is transmitting back into car through spindle.
I don't disagree but am disappointed a brand new KONI FSD shock is bad, there is a lot of work needed to get that out and new one back in but the shuttering I feel is similar to what you would have if there was not a shock in there and only spring reacting to energy produced by hitting a series of bumps.
KONI NA is ordering me a replacement shock/strut at an upfront cost to me of $219 and will take 2 to 3 weeks to get here from Holland, then I send potentially bad shock/strut back and if they deem it is defective, I get my money back.
Seriously wondering if all this work has been worth it, lots of hours spent wrenching on the front suspension and out of pocket $$$ for new parts and I don't have a car that rides solidly......
Next time maybe just get a Blauparts suspension rebuild package for $339.95 and stay with stock springs?????? Have them on two B5.5's and they ride great!

 

[Tutti57]

Well it sounds like you are at least on your way to a smooth running ride.

 

[rcprato]

Picture of engine mount

Here is a picture of engine mount, it is sagging really bad and about 1/4" from resting on bottom housing.

Looking at OEM mounts on ECS and they are not sitting low like this one.
Can't see transmission mount cause of battery and air box but would guess it is the same or worse.
So what is your opinion? Time to replace?

 

[Bill6211789]

At 97k id say its definitely time to do ur engine mounts. You have upgraded just about everything else its time. I recommend BFI motor mount and there trans mount insert (basically rebuilds oem trans mount)

Sent from my Galaxy S3

 

[gigel]

The mounts you see on websites are probably not resting on an engine, so it's normal they look different. I am not saying you shouldn't change them, but I can tell you that some people drive on their original mounts (on TDI cars) at 300k mls, and they are still fine.

 

[rcprato]

Bill6211789 I almost pulled trigger today and ordered the BFI Stage 1 engine mount and transmission mount insert but am concerned about transmitting energy from engine into the cabin.

The BFI engine mount is so different than OEM, this is a daily driver and car we take on 900 mile drives for vacation so I don't want to increase cabin noise/vibration at highway speeds.

Was driving some country roads today after work in Finger lakes area south of Rochester, the car drives awesome after improvements so far and going 65 + mph on country roads was so stable and in control so I have definitely overcome short comings in factory set up! Get this engine snug in the cradle and might be looking at a APR Stage 1 tune down the road......

 

[Bill6211789]

Im running stage 2 mounts current and i dont feel they added too much vibration at all and my car is a DD that i put about 20k a yr on. I think you'll be safe with stage 1 but it really depends how sensitive you are. Any motor mount upgrade will increase vibration but it depends on what is acceptable to you.


And i recommend UNI over APR. And if no UNI tuners are local to you you can get UNi connect and put the tune on ur car yourself.
Sent from my Galaxy S3

 

[Tutti57]

When you drove my car, I had BFI stage 1 mount and the dogbone insert. I also have a Unitronic tune, our nearest dealer is in buffalo.

 

[BsickPassat]

The mounts you see on websites are probably not resting on an engine, so it's normal they look different. I am not saying you shouldn't change them, but I can tell you that some people drive on their original mounts (on TDI cars) at 300k mls, and they are still fine.

some people become complacent on their TDI's that they don't notice.

They too, have hydraulic oil filled mounts, that has a tendency to leak when they fail.

 

[low_passat]

Bill6211789 I almost pulled trigger today and ordered the BFI Stage 1 engine mount and transmission mount insert but am concerned about transmitting energy from engine into the cabin.

The BFI engine mount is so different than OEM, this is a daily driver and car we take on 900 mile drives for vacation so I don't want to increase cabin noise/vibration at highway speeds.

Was driving some country roads today after work in Finger lakes area south of Rochester, the car drives awesome after improvements so far and going 65 + mph on country roads was so stable and in control so I have definitely overcome short comings in factory set up! Get this engine snug in the cradle and might be looking at a APR Stage 1 tune down the road......

If you are interested in the BFI mounts, and can hold out a little longer do so. They usually have a Black Friday sale where mounts are 25% off.

 

[r_c_reid]

I have a slightly used BFI tranny mount insert with less than 5,000 mi on it. I can part with it for $40 shipped. Let me know if interested.

It's this one: http://store.blackforestindustries.com/bfist1trmoin.html

 

[rcprato]

Thanks low_passat for offer to sell your insert and r_c_reid for heads up on BFI Black Friday Sale.

I decided to buy OEM transmission and engine mounts and replace factory with new factory mount as a way to make sure I don't change anything else and can isolate this noise I am getting.

Ordered BFI Stage 1 insert yesterday and plan is to rebuild factory transmission mount if noise goes away and put back in car to see what I think, if it is positive I will buy the engine mount on Black Friday Sale.

I will post back with results after changing out mounts, this is bound to happen to other cars as the OEM mounts begin to fail as our cars get older.