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Re: Big Brother's riding shotgun :thumbdown: (benny_mech)

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has passed a regulation requiring car makers to inform customers when their car has been equipped with an Event Data Recorder, the agency said Monday.
EDRs, similar to "black boxes" used in commercial airliners, record data about what a car is doing in the moments just before and after a crash. They do not record the voices of occupants but they do record things like speed, steering wheel movement, how hard the brakes are being pressed and the actual movement of the car itself.
About 64 percent of model year 2005 cars were equipped with EDRs, according to NHTSA. Some manufacturer's already include information about the EDR in the owners manual, but not all, said Rae Tyson, a spokesman for NHTSA.
"If you have a new vehicle, chances are it's got one," he said.
Data from the recorders is used by law enforcement and attorneys to recreate events directly leading up to an accident. Data is also used by car companies to research how cars and drivers perform in actual crashes.
Some privacy advocates have expressed concern that the data, which can be used as evidence in court cases, is being collected without the knowledge of vehicle owners and drivers.
The devices are virtually impossible to disable because their functioning is so tightly integrated with vehicle safety systems such as airbags and anti-lock brakes.
Several states have already passed laws that restrict how the data can be used.
Car companies must comply with the new regulation beginning in the 2011 model year. Information about the EDR, if one is installed, will have to be included in the vehicle's owner's manual.
The new rule also requires EDRs to collect a uniform set of data. Having access to uniform data will help investigators to recreate crashes and determine causes, the agency said.
More-uniform data will also make it easier to develop systems so that, in cars equipped with automatic 911 emergency notification, data about the crash can also be passed along to paramedics and ambulance crews.
The data can also be used to research better road designs and ways to better protect young and old drivers, said Robert Sinclair, a spokesman for the New York chapter of AAA.
AAA had previously expressed concern to NHTSA about privacy issues that might hamper public acceptance of the systems. Those concerns seem to be addressed by the new rule, Sinclair said.
 

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Re: Big Brother's riding shotgun :thumbdown: (Rabbit TDi)

Quote, originally posted by Rabbit TDi »
The devices are virtually impossible to disable because their functioning is so tightly integrated with vehicle safety systems such as airbags and anti-lock brakes.

theres ways around EVERYTHING...
theyve been talking about these things for a while. interesting that its actually going to happen
 

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Re: (NWDub)

I think it's a good idea as long as they can't just "call up" you car and download information about your driving. If they only use the information stored in the ECU in the event of an accident, I think it's a good thing.
I see this being helpful in preventing a lot of people from getting screwed by insurance companies and the courts when an accident wasn't their fault but the other person is trying to pass it off as their fault.
 

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Re: (UdubVdub)

Quote, originally posted by UdubVdub »
I think it's a good idea as long as they can't just "call up" you car and download information about your driving.

again, theres always a way around it.
if theyre calling up the car of some habitual drunk driver who isnt aware of a way to disable the system, i say go for it
 

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Re: (golf97)

Quote, originally posted by golf97 »
scary, but if its only collected when an accident occurs i think it could be a productive thing.

I'm pretty sure that it will have other applications; in one of the articles I've read about the system in the past, therer were hints that Highway officers would be able to access the system after they pull you over to verify your speed.
 

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Re: (golf97)

Quote, originally posted by golf97 »
scary, but if its only collected when an accident occurs i think it could be a productive thing.

If that makes my insurance rates cheaper due to the fact they will know for sure who's fault an accident is, I say go for it. If this is just another way to screw us I say http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
I think if anything, this would be good to know how to make cars safer to drive, what works well, what doesn't to make a car accident less severe. If they can figure out that a program like "ESP" is making it more difficult to avoid an accident and they find ways to make it safer (for the average driver) this should be a good thing. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I say they should limit the information to only the vehicle manufacturer for improvements to the safty capabilities of their cars... I think the information in any other hands (insuance companies, law inforcement authorities) would only work against us in an accident.
 

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Re: (vdubnut_mike)

There is no way to tell fom some data what ACTUALLY happened during an accident. I don't care what it records. ALSO, I have heard that those toll bridge cards they have in some states have been used in some cases to track speeders and they would tell that you got from point A to point B a little too fast and send you a ticket in the mail. I could see them doing this with these "BLACK BOXES." With the whole thing about the police hooking up to it, They are in no place a regular police officer would reach, AND good luck with me letting you get to it if it were somewhere you could reach. That Box is still YOUR property and they would need a warrant to plug into it or search it.
SO.... F**K The PO-Lice when I'm rollin' through the projects!!!
 

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Re: (ValveCoverGasket)

Quote, originally posted by ValveCoverGasket »
again, theres always a way around it.

Probably true... but I'll bet every insurance company out there will slip fine print into your policy negating your insurance if they can show that you did bypass it somehow....


Modified by Arsigi at 3:22 PM 8-22-2006
 

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Re: (dubdubberson)

Quote, originally posted by dubdubberson »
There is no way to tell fom some data what ACTUALLY happened during an accident. i dont care what it records

yeah....there is.
its really simple.
some people even do it for a living.

definetly one of the more ignorant things ive read today....
all this talk about fines and insurance...just think guys, how many people here have chips in their car that "void" their warranty. yet, when they take that car to a dealer to get scanned, the dealer is none the wiser...
theres always a work around...
 

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Re: (dubdubberson)

it all depends on what sensors youre reading.
itll tell you almost all of those things...

and, you really only need to see vehicle dynamics stuff anyhow, you can tell which way everyone was facing from the skidmarks. from that point enough vehicle dymanics stuff will tell you EVERYTHING else you need to know.
again, let me stress, people do this for a living.
its doable.
 

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Re: (JURGY20V)

Yeah, well I just heard that some Insurance companies want to put GPS tracking devices on cars so they can track your driving history and bill you accordingly to how you drive.....IE speed limit or 10 over all the time.
 

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Re: (dubdubberson)

Quote, originally posted by dubdubberson »
There is no way to tell fom some data what ACTUALLY happened during an accident. I don't care what it records.

Your right, it won't say a dog ran out in front of you, but it shows wheel movement and if the wheels were jerked, then they can at least narrow it down to a dog probably did run out in front of the guy.
Plus basic Algebra and you can tell a lot,
Speed x Time
Distance
Is the formula!
Basic Equation we use in navigation.
That along with skid marks and I think no one mentioned this big one:
Witnesses! They will always fined out so black box black cocks......who cares. If you are acting stupid and wreck, you deserve what ya get and they will fined out with a box or not!
 
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