VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner

41 - 60 of 141 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,495 Posts
I don't see anything out of the ordinary here. But then that wasn't the expectation. I'm sure it'll be a volume seller.
 

·
Chili Bigot
A muscle car (mine), a bugout vic (hers), and a beater (the boy's)
Joined
·
20,086 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,487 Posts
I think you need to bring RWD from its pedestal.

There are plenty of evidence to support that FWD can be great, unless you put zillions of HP on the front tires. Even at that....

http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front-wheel-drive-tt-rs-racecar

This little Bimmer looks promising.
So what is going to happen to the current 2 series? What platform will they build it off of if the 1 series hatchback goes FWD? That would be sad if BMW did not have a compact RWD coupe in its line up. I do not care if they do a FWD sedan but if they do a FWD 2 series coupe that is a deal breaker for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,403 Posts
I think you need to bring RWD from its pedestal.

There are plenty of evidence to support that FWD can be great, unless you put zillions of HP on the front tires. Even at that....

http://jalopnik.com/5958856/this-is-audis-insane-front-wheel-drive-tt-rs-racecar

This little Bimmer looks promising.
I drive a FWD Kizashi and it handles really nicely, with lots of balance, linearity and control and no harsh edges but a little bump steer. But it doesn't handle like a great RWD car.

Go drive something like an E46 323i and you'll put it on a pedestal. It's not fast and it's not harshly sprung but it's really beautiful how the weight transfer is so rapid and controlled using the throttle as much as the steering. It's an entirely different dimension of handling.
 

·
Registered
'17 Golf R
Joined
·
13,614 Posts
Really? :what:
Yeah really. By BMW standards that's a lot of front overhang. By Ferrari La Ferrari that's no front overhang. But by BMW standards that's a lot. There cars have always had little to no front overhang which is one of their trademark design cues. That's all I'm saying. :beer:

did you complaint the same sh!t about your Porsche?
So calm down there tough guy. :rolleyes:



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,558 Posts
You complaint is as outdated as BMW used to make RWD only or RWD only M cars or manual transmission only for M cars....

 

·
Registered
'17 Golf R
Joined
·
13,614 Posts
No worse than other FWD cars.
True. But worse by BMW standards. That's all I'm saying. Not trying to be controversial or start a fight. I think it's a good looking car. I just immediately thought wow that's a lot of front overhang for a BMW.
 

·
Registered
'17 Golf R
Joined
·
13,614 Posts
Meh. I guess I'm showing my age, but the BMWs I grew up with in the late 1990s early 2000s had way less overhang. That's one of the things that was cool about their look.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,160 Posts
Horsepucky. A Mini doesn't handle like a BMW.
Actually the BMW DNA is really apparent when you drive the modern Minis, especially the hot ones.

I drive a FWD Kizashi and it handles really nicely, with lots of balance, linearity and control and no harsh edges but a little bump steer.
C'mon. A Suzuki Kizashi is not an adequate means to measure how good a FWD BMW will be. Even a non-S Mini would carve circles around it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,487 Posts
You complaint is as outdated as BMW used to make RWD only or RWD only M cars or manual transmission only for M cars....

BMW's line up has evolved to meet what the market demands. I understand why they are making FWD entry level models like the X1 and 1 Series Sedan. I just hope they still make vehicles like the current 2 series because it is the closest thing to a successor of the 2002 that BMW currently makes. I do not think a FWD coupe model would sell well. People buying coupe models are usually more likely to be actual car enthusiast at this point. As of October the 2 series has sold 9,730 cars in the US. For a niche model that is pretty decent. The Audi TT has sold 1/10 of that this year.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2014/01/bmw-2-series-sales-figures-usa-canada.html
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/audi-tt-sales-figures.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,558 Posts
If BMW can make this 1 series sedan as close as this concept, it will be instant KO to cars like Acura ILX.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
26,117 Posts
So this will be the current 2 series coupe with with a extra pair of doors and a slightly slower roof line. In other words e46 sedan. Lawd please let this be true.
If it's like the 4gc which is bigger than a 3 and a hatch, then a 2gc would probably essentially be a 3 sedan but sloped and hatched. That's not a bad thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,403 Posts
Actually the BMW DNA is really apparent when you drive the modern Minis, especially the hot ones.
I've driven modern Minis and I like them, but they don't drive like RWD cars.

C'mon. A Suzuki Kizashi is not an adequate means to measure how good a FWD BMW will be.
I'm comparing the Kizashi to a 2000 BMW 323i that my father owns. Same size, same weight, same power, same contact patches, same suspension compliance, and if you ever drive a Kizashi I think you'll be surprised how well it handles. But RWD just adds an irreplaceable component to the driving feel. Go ahead and make the same comparison with a Mazda 3 and the 323i if you're skeptical of the Kizashi.

Even a non-S Mini would carve circles around it.
A non-S Mini would carve circles around an E46 323i too. It's a tiny car. And it's not the same driving experience by a country mile. This - this, this... compromise - there's no way it's going to have 50/50 front/rear weight distribution with the corner weights set to offset the weight of the driver on the left side of the car like a real BMW, there's no way it's not going to understeer as it pulls itself around corners, steering feel dampened by all that mass swinging around in front of the axle. It's a badge job, it's a cheap way to boosts CAFE, it's a way to get tarts and guidettes into the BMW lifestyle. But it's not a car for discerning drivers. I hate it already.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,127 Posts
I've driven modern Minis and I like them, but they don't drive like RWD cars.


I'm comparing the Kizashi to a 2000 BMW 323i that my father owns. Same size, same weight, same power, same contact patches, same suspension compliance, and if you ever drive a Kizashi I think you'll be surprised how well it handles. But RWD just adds an irreplaceable component to the driving feel. Go ahead and make the same comparison with a Mazda 3 and the 323i if you're skeptical of the Kizashi.



A non-S Mini would carve circles around an E46 323i too. It's a tiny car. And it's not the same driving experience by a country mile. This - this, this... compromise - there's no way it's going to have 50/50 front/rear weight distribution with the corner weights set to offset the weight of the driver on the left side of the car like a real BMW, there's no way it's not going to understeer as it pulls itself around corners, steering feel dampened by all that mass swinging around in front of the axle. It's a badge job, it's a cheap way to boosts CAFE, it's a way to get tarts and guidettes into the BMW lifestyle. But it's not a car for discerning drivers. I hate it already.

Are you being satirical? I honestly can't tell.
 

·
Registered
2013 MINI JCW, 2020 Bolt, 2002 Suburban 2500
Joined
·
19,000 Posts
I drive a FWD Kizashi and it handles really nicely, with lots of balance, linearity and control and no harsh edges but a little bump steer. But it doesn't handle like a great RWD car.
No, ti doesn't handle like a good RWD car. But the MINI handles GREAT, and better than most RWD cars. meaning if this BMW has MINI DNA, it'll still handle great. Will handle like a RWD 2 series or 3 series? Maybe as good as the base ones, but it'll be a different feel. But it'll still be solid in the handling department.

Go drive something like an E46 323i and you'll put it on a pedestal. It's not fast and it's not harshly sprung but it's really beautiful how the weight transfer is so rapid and controlled using the throttle as much as the steering. It's an entirely different dimension of handling.
I've had a 2002, a 320i, spent a to of time with E36s, my kids E46, my own E38s, and a ton of RWD cars set up for autocross and fun roads, as well as bone stock E90s. I've also had a number of fun FWD cars, from my CRX Si to and autocross A1 Rabbit GTi, to my current MINI Cooper. So I do have some point of comparison. The MINI is an excellent handling car. As was said, it's solid in the handling department. And if this 1 series has MINI DNA in it, it'll handle better than most RWD cars, too. Will it feel the same as a RWD 2 or 3 series, no. you have to drive them differently to get the most out of them. But it'll still be, as was said, solid in the handling department.

I've driven modern Minis and I like them, but they don't drive like RWD cars.
No one said they did. THey said, and again I have to quote it: They are solid in the handling department."

can you get that through your head yet?


I'm comparing the Kizashi to a 2000 BMW 323i that my father owns. Same size, same weight, same power, same contact patches, same suspension compliance, and if you ever drive a Kizashi I think you'll be surprised how well it handles. But RWD just adds an irreplaceable component to the driving feel. Go ahead and make the same comparison with a Mazda 3 and the 323i if you're skeptical of the Kizashi.
And the Kizashi is no modern MINI, which is lighter, has a better cg, better suspension, better track to height/wheelbase to lenght proportions, etc. I've compared mine to my BMWs and it's VERY good.


A non-S Mini would carve circles around an E46 323i too. It's a tiny car. And it's not the same driving experience by a country mile. This - this, this... compromise - there's no way it's going to have 50/50 front/rear weight distribution with the corner weights set to offset the weight of the driver on the left side of the car like a real BMW, there's no way it's not going to understeer as it pulls itself around corners, steering feel dampened by all that mass swinging around in front of the axle. It's a badge job, it's a cheap way to boosts CAFE, it's a way to get tarts and guidettes into the BMW lifestyle. But it's not a car for discerning drivers. I hate it already.
With just a rear swaybar change, I can make a FWD car have oversteer as it's base state. With a little longer wheelbase, the 1 series will be a bit more stable than the MINI, and with proper suspension tuning (and you know than BMW knows how to do that) you may be surprised at how well it handles. Will it use the same inputs to do the same job as a 2 series or an older 3? No. You WILL have to drive it differently to get it to rotate, but let BMW do what it does with suspension and, again, based on the MINI, it'll be, what that saying? Oh, yeah, "solid in the handling department."
 
41 - 60 of 141 Posts
Top