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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* (DrewSXR)

car & driver is horrible.
the 3 series won? that's a surprise.
funny how they're probably the only reviewers who love the steering feel of the car. everyone else says the exact opposite stating that the m3's steering feels disconnected and numb, and after driving it i know where they're coming from. personally, i'd take the 911 then the m3.


Modified by amerikanzero at 5:16 AM 5-28-2008
 

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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* (fsuhorizon)

Quote, originally posted by fsuhorizon »

Why dodge the question? In declining to answer, that tells me you've driven none of them. And I fail to see how I'm "defending" anything "to the death". I said I'd not driven any of the cars and I doubted anyone chiming in will have driven all three.

I don't see why you are picking away my posts when others are saying the same thing.
For quite sometime I have said that mag as turned TO CRAP, its not just this awful review I don't agree with.
 

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Imagine that, a BMW winning a Car and Driver test despite being outclassed everywhere. It's hardly news worthy. That said, Car and Driver, contrary to TCL mentality, won't always pick a car just because it's the spec sheet king. On the other side, I've driven the 997 Turbo extensively and I have real trouble believing that I would pick an M3 over it. Likewise, the crushing ability of the GT-R would simply be too hard to ignore for the same money.
 

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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* (1SICKLEX)

Quote, originally posted by 1SICKLEX »

I don't see why you are picking away my posts when others are saying the same thing.
For quite sometime I have said that mag as turned TO CRAP, its not just this awful review I don't agree with.

You and the OP are the only two in the thread that have read the article. I'd like to see it but I don't get C/D. I stopped my subscription when they switched the format two years ago (or thereabouts).
There have been more comments about the outcome and I bet none of those people have driven the cars either. Such is typical of TCL.
Don't feel singled out though.
 

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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* (DrewSXR)

Quote, originally posted by DrewSXR »
C&D says: Nissan and Porsche "should have written us a bigger check."

Fixed
 

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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* (1SICKLEX)

I've driven all three of those cars and honestly, I'm with C/D on this one. The 911 Turbo is obviously a legend, but it isn't the best street 911 out there and the on/off turbo makes it a handful on the track. Sure, mastering it and keeping it pointed straight is good fun and you feel pretty special once you've done it, but I'd rather have a car that I can get in and drive fast without much drama. The GT-R is certainly impressive but the engine in person doesn't sound any more special than it does on Gran Turismo 4 and it makes funny vibrations from the front tires when it understeers (which it does) and while I'd get out of the other two cars mentioned here feeling like it's something special, the GT-R just felt like a normal car that happened to be obscenely quick. Check out Automobile's comments from each editor, they felt the same way.
Yeah, it's predictable that the M3 would be C/D's favorite, but that's because it is, and has been, so very good. And in this test, it's the cheapest car by far ($54k base.) It's crazy fast, incredibly well-balanced, drivable every day, holds five in sedan form, and is a relative bargain and you guys are somehow complaining that a major magazine gives it the win? C'mon. If they gave the 911 the win, everyone would be in here saying "well yeah, for that much money I hope it's the best."
 

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Re: (mariok2006)

Quote, originally posted by mariok2006 »
magazine scans: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/ind...99987

Thank you for the scans.
Again, I won't comment on many of the ratings as I've not driven any of the cars. The one thing I do disagree with in the ratings is the "gotta have it" score for the M3. It was given a 23, which is higher than the 911. I don't think anyone will disagree that the 911 turbo has more prestige. I wouldn't have ranked the M3 ahead of the 911 in that category.
 

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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* ([email protected])

Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »
I've driven all three of those cars and honestly, I'm with C/D on this one. The 911 Turbo is obviously a legend, but it isn't the best street 911 out there and the on/off turbo makes it a handful on the track. Sure, mastering it and keeping it pointed straight is good fun and you feel pretty special once you've done it, but I'd rather have a car that I can get in and drive fast without much drama. The GT-R is certainly impressive but the engine in person doesn't sound any more special than it does on Gran Turismo 4 and it makes funny vibrations from the front tires when it understeers (which it does) and while I'd get out of the other two cars mentioned here feeling like it's something special, the GT-R just felt like a normal car that happened to be obscenely quick. Check out Automobile's comments from each editor, they felt the same way.
Yeah, it's predictable that the M3 would be C/D's favorite, but that's because it is, and has been, so very good. And in this test, it's the cheapest car by far ($54k base.) It's crazy fast, incredibly well-balanced, drivable every day, holds five in sedan form, and is a relative bargain and you guys are somehow complaining that a major magazine gives it the win? C'mon. If they gave the 911 the win, everyone would be in here saying "well yeah, for that much money I hope it's the best."

No, no, NO! Logic does not belong in this thread!
 

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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* ([email protected])

Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »
Yeah, it's predictable that the M3 would be C/D's favorite, but that's because it is, and has been, so very good. And in this test, it's the cheapest car by far ($54k base.) It's crazy fast, incredibly well-balanced, drivable every day, holds five in sedan form, and is a relative bargain and you guys are somehow complaining that a major magazine gives it the win? C'mon. If they gave the 911 the win, everyone would be in here saying "well yeah, for that much money I hope it's the best."

Well put. Thanks for the informed opinion!
 

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Re: (Professor Gascan)

Quote, originally posted by Professor Gascan »
Imagine that, a BMW winning a Car and Driver test despite being outclassed everywhere. It's hardly news worthy. That said, Car and Driver, contrary to TCL mentality, won't always pick a car just because it's the spec sheet king. On the other side, I've driven the 997 Turbo extensively and I have real trouble believing that I would pick an M3 over it. Likewise, the crushing ability of the GT-R would simply be too hard to ignore for the same money.

X1000
 

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Interesting that this GTR performed waaaaay worse than the one they tested previously.
This GT-R completed the quarter mile 6/10 of a second slower, and was 9 mph slower throught the quarter mile. Strange isn't it?
This one also took 11 feet longer to stop from 70.
 

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Re: (chewym)

Quote, originally posted by chewym »
Interesting that this GTR performed waaaaay worse than the one they tested previously.
This GT-R completed the quarter mile 6/10 of a second slower, and was 9 mph slower throught the quarter mile. Strange isn't it?
This one also took 11 feet longer to stop from 70.

Seems they took great pains to avoid having it completely chew the M3 to pieces.
 

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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* ([email protected])

Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »
... The 911 Turbo is obviously a legend, but it isn't the best street 911 out there and the on/off turbo makes it a handful on the track. Sure, mastering it and keeping it pointed straight is good fun and you feel pretty special once you've done it, but I'd rather have a car that I can get in and drive fast without much drama. ... If they gave the 911 the win, everyone would be in here saying "well yeah, for that much money I hope it's the best."

Yeah yeah, this from the guy with a '86 325e, no bias

I'm going to have to read the article when I get time. Is this a question of context - where they say it's a win with money factored in - or is it truly a no-asterisk-needed 1st place?
And since you said the 911 turbo isn't the best street 911 out there - an assertion I agree with - then does the M3 beat a 911 GT3 or GT3 RS in a straight fight?
I'm genuinely interested, because I can't afford a GT3, but I could maybe get an M3 with a quick lawsuit or two
 

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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* (MylesPH1)

It has prety low steering feel for a RWD car, which should Suposedly be better than on an AWD car... M3: 3/5, GTR: 4/5, Turbo: 5/5.
 

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Re: C&D Comparo: M3 vs. GT-R vs. 911 Turbo *Spoiler Alert* ([email protected])

Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »
Yeah, it's predictable that the M3 would be C/D's favorite, but that's because it is, and has been, so very good. And in this test, it's the cheapest car by far ($54k base.) It's crazy fast, incredibly well-balanced, drivable every day, holds five in sedan form, and is a relative bargain and you guys are somehow complaining that a major magazine gives it the win? C'mon. If they gave the 911 the win, everyone would be in here saying "well yeah, for that much money I hope it's the best."

Fact is the 911 turbo, which scores 27 points below the M3, wasn't designed to be as practical as a sedan-based performance car (maybe their upcoming Panamera will). If being cheaper and more practical were the criteria these performance cars were measured, then we could probably throw in the RS4, C63, and IS-F, as well as the STi, into this comparo. Also, the STi is cheaper then the M3, crazy fast, incredibly well-balanced, drivable every day, holds five (and is a hatch), and is a relative bargain.
The problem is that performance cars are impractical. We have as much need for a car that does 0-60mph in sub-5 seconds and we do a car that does it in sub-4 seconds. A performance car is a long list of sacrifices of practicality with performance (less seats, harsher ride, higher price, no boot, etc.) It may be that the M3 (or any of its coupe/sedan rivals) is the best balance between the two dichotomies, but then the C&D review would trying to be making more a ideological point then a real comparison of the cars relative to what these cars were designed to do; which in this case is performance.
 
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