C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!!

1496 Views 37 Replies 27 Participants Last post by Golf_2K2L, Feb 9, 2002

rbenjami

Discussion Starter · Feb 7, 2002

My March 2002 C&D came in the mail today. The cover story is called "Fastbacks! Rating the 3 Hottest Hatches". The GTI w/ 1.8T came in 3rd place.
Highs: Quickest by far, excellent build quality, richest interior.
Lows: Too much torque for the all-season tires to handle, rubbery shifter,
suffers from some floppy body roll.
The Verdict: The original sprightly hot hatch has grown more distinguished with
age but has also gone soft around the middle.
p. 40

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

Guenter T

· #2 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (rbenjami)

Car magazines are always pimping the newest car on the block. That's what keeps them in business. The only person who knows what you like in a car is you; not some guy who is getting paid to ensure that his magazine keeps their advertising revenue from dropping off.
As for the GTI vs Civic Si vs Focus...it depends what you consider important in a car. If you buy your car for autocrossing your performance priorities will be different from those for a commuter or daily driver. If you insist on a little of both you can chip the 1.8T and add some performance springs etc.

Lamfalus

· #3 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (rbenjami)

Ahhh, but how will the DE GTI fare???? I bet it'd be a whole new ball game. They did their test a couple months too early...

soundzero

· #4 · Feb 7, 2002

2

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (rbenjami)

Everytime I see Ford focus ZX3 drives by I think to myself how cute that car looks but everytime I see another GTi pass by....I cann't stop from turnning my head or looking into rearview mirror. Hehehe and I drive GTi too.
As far as megazine goes...who reads American auto megazines? Go euro!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif much objective and intelligent! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

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MatchStick

· #5 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (rbenjami)

quote:[HR][/HR]Lows: Too much torque for the all-season tires to handle, rubbery shifter,
suffers from some floppy body roll. [HR][/HR]

So easily rememdied... I don't know why Car and Driver loves the Jokus so much... Whatever, 2 polished turds win the day...

Also, what are all the tool drivers of the Jokus and Civic going to say? "we won that test over your GTI" to which you respond "did you see the part where it said 'FASTEST BY FAR'??!!" That will shut them up right quick...

[Modified by MatchStick, 4:34 PM 2-7-2002]

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cadiburns

· #6 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (rbenjami)

quote:[HR][/HR]Highs: Quickest by far, excellent build quality, richest interior.
Lows: Too much torque for the all-season tires to handle, rubbery shifter,
suffers from some floppy body roll. [HR][/HR]

that comment cracks me up. it's already the fastest of the bunch, if i was in the market, i would be willing to spend $1000 for some springs, shocks/struts, and sway bars to make it........not so soft. oh well, i didn't get to read the article, i'm sure they have very good reasons as to why. it's just a comparo i saw where the new Mazda Protoge won, and i think it was the slowest of the bunch. it was just the most fun to drive.

dts

· #7 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (cadiburns)

I don't know -- I think that their criticisms of the GTI were right on the money.
It does have a rubbery shifter. It does have soft handling (stock). It does come with all-weather tires.

Lots of people on this board fix the suspension and tire problems with aftermarket pieces. But stock, the others simply handle a little bit better (although the Si appears to be badly undertired itself, as Honda/Acura is wont to do).
All of that said, the GTI fits my needs perfectly. I like torque, so I like the VR6. I like the luxury touches, and -- yes -- the high-quality interior. I don't even mind the soft ride, since I drive in the city where there are lots of rough roads, more often than I take it out to country roads for high-speed strafing.
When my tires wear out, I'll buy upgraded summer tires. When the b to b warrantee expires, I'll consider upgrading the suspension.
But the shifter will remain rubbery until the day I get rid of the car.

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agarc

· #8 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (rbenjami)

Just a random question: what does Car & Driver mean when they complain about a "rubbery shifter"? How is it rubbery? I haven't driven many stick shifts, but I'm happy with the way mine feels... I wouldn't describe it as rubbery at all... It seems like for every review that C/D does about a VW, one of the cons is "rubbery shifter". Why doesn't C/D like VW stick shifts?!?

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rbenjami

Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (agarc)

The VW shifter is the definition of "rubbery". Some shifters take no effort at all to switch. Having driven (and owned) many different stick shifts, I can say that (besides my old 1982 Saab 900) the VW has the most "rubbery"shifter I have used.

MatchStick

· #10 · Feb 7, 2002

2

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (agarc)

quote:[HR][/HR]Just a random question: what does Car & Driver mean when they complain about a "rubbery shifter"? How is it rubbery? I haven't driven many stick shifts, but I'm happy with the way mine feels... I wouldn't describe it as rubbery at all... It seems like for every review that C/D does about a VW, one of the cons is "rubbery shifter". Why doesn't C/D like VW stick shifts?!?

[HR][/HR]

I love my GTI much more, but the shifter is utter crap compared to the sublime device in my formerly owned '94 Prelude VTEC. If Honda has one thing right, it's how to make a buttery smooth shifter. Schnickity schnick - zoige zoige zoige...

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agarc

· #11 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (rbenjami)

Hmmm... I don't know why this is so bad. Maybe it's very slight in my car, but often the shifting is pretty smooth... Oh well. Guess it's just a matter of personal opinion.
_________
So how did the Focus do better than the GTI?

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dts

· #12 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (agarc)

Best thing to do is drive a car that has a great shifter -- like an Acura RSX or a Honda Prelude.
The shifter glides firmly and exactly into place with little to no resistance, and with the shifter moving very little from side-to-side.
Notice when you shift your VW that the shifter makes a "clunk" that you can hear and feel as you shift it into each gear (this is what is known as "notchiness") and that the shifter feels somewhat imprecise in terms of what gear it's going into (again, in comparison to other shifters). This is the "rubbery" feel that is described.

rbenjami

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (agarc)

Why was this moved to "The Car Lounge"? I originally put it in the Golf IV & Jetta IV Forum as it was a review of that type of car. Why the move?

benares

· #14 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (dts)

I can forgive the tires and suspension. These are things you can fix.
A crap shifter is unforgivable in this day and age. Especially for a "Drivers car." And a crap shifter is something you can NOT fix unless you replace the whole darn tranny. And that isn't cheap.
Don't take me as a troll. I don't complain just to complain - I complain because I care. I look forward to trying VW's 6 speed to see if they have improved any.

[Modified by benares, 2:19 PM 2-7-2002]

Spiro SU

· #15 · Feb 7, 2002

2

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (benares)

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zero

· #16 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (dts)

The downside to the Honda/Acura is that is transmits a lot of feedback, vibrates like crazy and will put your hand to sleep if you keep your right hand on the shifter like I do when I drive. That is why the VW shifter is "rubbery". Cable shifters dampen the feel of the road. Of course on the track, you would tend to have both hands on the wheel when not shifting so that is not an issue, whereas missing a shift could be the difference between winning and losing. You'll notice that some reviewers who don't push the cars like C&D does, will commend VW for the tremendous interior and "smooth" shifter. Maybe VW has it right though. The new civic and RSX have cable shifters now too.

lip

· #17 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (rbenjami)

Because of the all the cars that we are currently discussing. We are not just talking about the GTi now, are we?

quote:[HR][/HR]that comment cracks me up. it's already the fastest of the bunch, if i was in the market, i would be willing to spend $1000 for some springs, shocks/struts, and sway bars to make it........[HR][/HR]

Exactly!

Strider

· #18 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (lip)

Like I have always said. If you arn't a Honda or a BMW you suck. this isn't a perfect example of this but go ahead and look back and tell me I'm wrong. That review of hte S4 and WRX and 330XI is the only time that I have ever seen the BMW not win. But then again the S4 is FLAT OUT the SUPERIOR car in that camp with the WRX close on its heels.

Golf_2K2L

· #19 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (Strider Turbo)

C & D is piece of crap. Their top ten cars are a joke:
- Honda Accord picked around 13 years in a row
- Ford Focus picked last 2 or 3 years
I love the Accord but lets face it somethings wrong at C&D (payoffs). The Focus has a very bad record for reliability. Alot worse than VW. I remember looking at the Focus before buying the Golf. Nobody knew if the body panels were galvanized. I even asked FORD headquarters. I did a search for technical bulletins on the Focus and got around 30 pages (2 years ago).

grue

· #20 · Feb 7, 2002

Re: C&D Feature - GTI 3rd Place; Civic Si 2nd Place; Focus 1st Place!!! (zero)

quote:[HR][/HR]The downside to the Honda/Acura is that is transmits a lot of feedback, vibrates like crazy and will put your hand to sleep if you keep your right hand on the shifter like I do when I drive. That is why the VW shifter is "rubbery". Cable shifters dampen the feel of the road. [HR][/HR]

uh, it's not great for your transmission to rest your hand on the shifter.

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