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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't see them for sale on potterman's site any more, and I did some searching around to read that they are very hard to find. I'm not sure that I want to go with a poly bushing, as I have heard some mixed results about binding/longevity, and my car is a daily driver. I want to stiffen it up, but I need something that will be durable and long lasting, and also not kill me on rough roads. Thinking about doing bushings and a lower tie bar in the spring (along with my ball joints which need to be replaced) to tighten up the steering feel a bit.
 

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Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (VR6 Mk3)

Your concerns about binding with the poly RCA bushings would still be valid with the VMS bushings. At that pivot point you want the freest movement you can get, not stiffness. You want your springs and shocks to control the movement of the a-arm, not a bushing.
With that being said if you still want them try Autotech or http://www.bildon.com or http://www.vwmotorsport.com. Though I remember a while back reading that they were no longer in production, fwiw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (MikeBlaze)

The VMS bushings are made of rubber, not of polyurethane (or so I have read). If it is restrictive to the suspension movement to have them be stiffer, why would VW Racing use them in their race cars?
I understand that the point of control arm bushings is not to control the movement of the control arm through its designed travel. Stiffer ones should, in theory, limit motion in other directions (i.e. side to side) though.
 

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vwms bushings are made in the same molds that the oem bushings are. The difference is 80 shore rubber vs 40?.. The only place that may have any rear pivot front CA bushings would be autotech.. and a far stretch for bildon. just use the darn audi TT motorsport ones.. solid 80 shore rubber..
 

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Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (VR6 Mk3)

Quote, originally posted by VR6 Mk3 »
why would VW Racing use them in their race cars?

You probably won't find too many rubber bushings in all out race cars. Probably more spherical bearings then anything.
Quote, originally posted by VR6 Mk3 »
I understand that the point of control arm bushings is not to control the movement of the control arm through its designed travel. Stiffer ones should, in theory, limit motion in other directions (i.e. side to side) though.

Considering the way the front of the arm is mounted you have to admit that side-to-side movement would be limited by the amount that the front bushing can compress. I don't see how a stiffer rear would limit side to side movement much, if any, at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (MikeBlaze)

Quote, originally posted by MikeBlaze »

You probably won't find too many rubber bushings in all out race cars. Probably more spherical bearings then anything.

I understand that, and I know that the rules say that they have to use near stock parts in those areas, but I'm not about to put bearings in my daily driven street car. My point was that VWMS must use them for a reason, I don't think that they would put in stiffer bushings if they inhibit the suspension. If they were poor for the suspension, wouldn't they just use stock bushings?
Quote »
Considering the way the front of the arm is mounted you have to admit that side-to-side movement would be limited by the amount that the front bushing can compress. I don't see how a stiffer rear would limit side to side movement much, if any, at all.

I never claimed to be an expert, just trying to learn what is better. I guess you are right, I was thinking of the control arm being mounted backwards from the way it actually is mounted. The front bushings don't offer much space for play, but at the same time, I have a hard time thinking that all of the people who have posted about these on Vortex (and VWMS) were just feeling things, and that they don't actually make a difference.
 

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Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (VR6 Mk3)

Quote, originally posted by VR6 Mk3 »

. My point was that VWMS must use them for a reason, I don't think that they would put in stiffer bushings if they inhibit the suspension. If they were poor for the suspension, wouldn't they just use stock bushings?

I understand your point but honestly I don't have an answer for it. I also don't know how extensively they used them.
Quote, originally posted by VR6 Mk3 »
I never claimed to be an expert, just trying to learn what is better.

As am I.

Quote, originally posted by VR6 Mk3 »

I have a hard time thinking that all of the people who have posted about these on Vortex (and VWMS) were just feeling things, and that they don't actually make a difference.

Sometimes I feel the same, but look at it this way. Have you ever talked to someone or read where someone switched only that bushing out from a perfectly good stock one and noticed an improvement? In the years i've been here I haven't. Truly that is the only way to tell what kind of difference they make.
BTW- I do have them in my car now, been running them for a couple of years.


Modified by MikeBlaze at 7:30 PM 2-12-2004
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (MikeBlaze)

Quote, originally posted by MikeBlaze »
As am I.

Cool man, I just didn't want you to think I was being disagreeable. You seem to know your shtuff, and I am just trying to play devil's advocate to extract some more information about the subject.
Quote »
Have you ever talked to someone or read where someone switched only that bushing out from a perfectly good stock one and noticed an improvement?

A few of the posts I read did have the person only switch out the bushings.
Quote »
BTW- I do have them in my car now, been running them for a couple of years.

Which ones do you have in your car? Did you actually notice an unfavorable difference when you put them in?
Also, any thoughts on lower A-arm braces?
 

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Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (VR6 Mk3)

Quote, originally posted by VR6 Mk3 »

Cool man, I just didn't want you to think I was being disagreeable. You seem to know your shtuff, and I am just trying to play devil's advocate to extract some more information about the subject.

Not at all. I like it. Question everything, there's always something to learn.
Quote, originally posted by VR6 Mk3 »
Which ones do you have in your car? Did you actually notice an unfavorable difference when you put them in?
Also, any thoughts on lower A-arm braces?

I have poly bushings in the front and VWMS in the rear of the arm. Honestly I couldn't tell ya if they made any difference. i did my whole suspension at once so I don't know what just they feel like. I will be going back to stock soon so we'll see what kind of a difference they make then.
I've got an upper bar up front which made a nice subtle difference. Never felt the need to get the lower.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (MikeBlaze)

Quote, originally posted by MikeBlaze »
I've got an upper bar up front which made a nice subtle difference. Never felt the need to get the lower.

I have the NS upper as well. I also read some posts that the lower just makes the steering feel a bit tighter. I figured if I can find a good deal on one somewhere, they are relatively cheap.
What are your thoughts on poly steering rack bushings?
 

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Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (VR6 Mk3)

Quote, originally posted by VR6 Mk3 »

I understand that, and I know that the rules say that they have to use near stock parts in those areas, but I'm not about to put bearings in my daily driven street car. My point was that VWMS must use them for a reason, I don't think that they would put in stiffer bushings if they inhibit the suspension. If they were poor for the suspension, wouldn't they just use stock bushings?
I never claimed to be an expert, just trying to learn what is better. I guess you are right, I was thinking of the control arm being mounted backwards from the way it actually is mounted. The front bushings don't offer much space for play, but at the same time, I have a hard time thinking that all of the people who have posted about these on Vortex (and VWMS) were just feeling things, and that they don't actually make a difference.


Perhaps the VWMS are less for performance and more for durability? Stock bushings have a limited lifespan and they probably wear out pretty quick in harsh racing environments. A harder rubber may last longer in that environment.
As for percieved performance improvements, brand new OEM vs. brand new VWMS parts would have to be compared. The anecdotal evidence I have read only indicates significant performance improvements when upgrading worn-out OEM bushings to VWMS. I don't recall reading anything about changing brand new OEM bushings to VWMS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (phatvw)

Quote, originally posted by phatvw »
The anecdotal evidence I have read only indicates significant performance improvements when upgrading worn-out OEM bushings to VWMS.

Thats a good point http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: (yellowslc)

Quote, originally posted by yellowslc »
just use the darn audi TT motorsport ones.. solid 80 shore rubber..

These would fit in the MK3 control arms ? If they do - can you tell who/where they are available for sale ?
 

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Re: Can VMS Control Arm Bushings still be found for a Mk3? (VR6 Mk3)

Quote, originally posted by VR6 Mk3 »
What are your thoughts on poly steering rack bushings?

Never used them, the car that my suspension is on now is used primarily for daily driving and spirited drives on country roads, never got that far into it-no need. What I have works well for what I want at the moment.
 

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Re: (WolfGTI)

When I purchased my 92 slc to use as a daily driver.. I replaced every single front suspension component on the car.. with 99k on it.. they were overdue.. At that time I installed new OEM bushings along with a sport suspension, etc. In less than 4k miles, the rear pivot CA bushings were already tearing. So, I installed the TT motorsport bushings and changed nothing else (reset alignment to the same specs I was running) The difference was noticeable, maybe not night and day but it definitely firmed up the front end. thusfar, these bushings have lasted 10k miles and currently show no signs of tearing. At a retail cost of $16.25 each, you cannot beat them. Part # is 8N0 401 181B FYI, these were designed by audi to fix a front end shimmy issue per a TSB and are used on all TT's from that date forward. Enjoy,
Robert
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: (yellowslc)

Quote, originally posted by yellowslc »
When I purchased my 92 slc to use as a daily driver.. I replaced every single front suspension component on the car.. with 99k on it.. they were overdue.. At that time I installed new OEM bushings along with a sport suspension, etc. In less than 4k miles, the rear pivot CA bushings were already tearing. So, I installed the TT motorsport bushings and changed nothing else (reset alignment to the same specs I was running) The difference was noticeable, maybe not night and day but it definitely firmed up the front end. thusfar, these bushings have lasted 10k miles and currently show no signs of tearing. At a retail cost of $16.25 each, you cannot beat them. Part # is 8N0 401 181B FYI, these were designed by audi to fix a front end shimmy issue per a TSB and are used on all TT's from that date forward. Enjoy,
Robert

Awesome, thanks for the PN and everything. I'm assuming these will fit mk2/3/corrado?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: (yellowslc)

Quote, originally posted by yellowslc »
unsure with regards to the mk4's.

Who cares about them anyway

I would think they would fit though, a TT is a lot closer to a Mk4 than a Mk3.
 
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